Variable speed HVAC units?

[bkspero]

We recently had a 5 ton single stage AC replaced with a 2 stage 4 ton AC unit. The contractor based the 4 ton recommendation on his heat/cooling load calculation where the others had quoted 5 ton units based on the existing equipment.

So far we've been very pleased. The first 3 days of operation were about as hot and humid as it gets here (95-99F and 75% RH), and the AC operated in the 2nd stage probably 70% of the time and stage 1 the rest. After that the temperature has moderated to the 80-90F range with ca. 40-50% RH, and the unit has kept the house at our setpoint (76F) with stage 1 operation exclusively.

As always, our second floor is warmer than the first in the summer, but the difference is small when the AC is operating continuously. During stage 1 intermittent operation we run the air handler fan when the AC is off and it substantially eliminates the temperature differences.

So overall we've been happy with the change to a smaller 2 stage AC system. It has kept the house comfortable, runs a greater percentage of the time so room temperature and humidity have been less variable, it is quieter (on stage 1), and, presumably, since it is a smaller unit running mostly on its more efficient stage 1, has cost less to keep the house comfortable.

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

I get it. My wife took my firearms away... I had an accidental discharge. True story, scared the crap out of me, much more respect for things that go boom. Damn oak desk has a bullet hole in it. I really have lost the thought to why I was saying this. But this government bs - it needs to end - it's a cancer on common sense.

I say install two stage units on Congress and the White House...

I feel for you and in the case of my family the results were quite worse. To wit, my brother used to keep a loaded revolver between the bed springs and mattress of he and his wife's bed. One day his wife was changing the sheets, the gun fell to the floor and she was killed instantly when the gun discharged.

 

[Valveman]

Just an add on, once upon a time many years ago, I bought a 30 pound can of r22 for 30 dollars, thought that was going to kill me. Heaven knows what my 10 pounds is worth if someone was getting charged for it.

The way things are it might even be illegal for you to sell it.

 

[Valveman]

Here is the specs on the heat pump I may still be looking at. Going to be a lot of change to not use the water pump and dump system.

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

The way things are it might even be illegal for you to sell it.

Or even own it but now we all know!

 

[Ludington]

Or even own it but now we all know!

It lives under my tablesaw... waiting , waiting , waiting.

 

[Ludington]

Here is the specs on the heat pump I may still be looking at. Going to be a lot of change to not use the water pump and dump system.

So, what kind of a price tag to install those loops and keep all those valves working.. oh I forgot your name.. valvman
Still hurts for all those K's. Payback will take a very long time over the pump and dump. I myself couldn't afford it. Drilling wells, or laying all that piping.

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

It lives under my tablesaw... waiting , waiting , waiting.

A very mysterious, almost silent squealing noise like the sound of a mouse being accidentally stepped on was heard over a period of several hours that suddenly stopped almost as quickly as it started. A coating of frost was noted on the outside of that dead soldier of a bottle of gas that disclosed what had happened. No fingerprints were found on the bottle's valve.

 

[cgilley]

The thread title is "variable speed HVAC units" when y'all are mostly talking about two stage a/c compressors. BIG difference.

When I upgraded my home system some years ago I went with a York with a DC variable speed blower. Heating and a/c two different things as well. I did this for a number of reasons, all real, and the variable speed blower and modulating gas burner solved them all. First, it was in Michigan where winter temps can go below zero and stay that way for days. Then the unit was in the basement right below the family room, and when it was on, it was very noisy as a LOT of air was being pushed around.

We had LONG shoulder seasons (March-May, and September-December) and the modulating gas burner made sense. Why burn 125K BTU in April when it's 40 degrees outside? The right answer is you don't. So, the new unit was quiet, since the blower rarely ran at full speed, but the blower ran at 10% velocity all the time. We eliminated all temperature stratification in the home.

Y'all know that heating is very different than a/c (which is more difficult and takes longer) and I don't think the two stage compressors are worth the extra $$$.

Here in NC, the ductwork is that flexible insulated stuff, so it's quieter. The HVAC units themselves are essentially silent in the living space of the home. So, I don't think I'll "upgrade" to anything different since I don't have any of the noise or temperature stratification issues I had in Michigan. What the builder put in here works. I might choose a heat pump if and when these systems fail, but that would be decided at the time.

fair enough, but I was sold this unit by an a/c person. No attempt was made to explain, and at the time I was in therapy for over thinking things.

I happen to have moved into a Georgia county back in the early 90s where it has not become the $$ county in the state. That means if I want my gutters cleaned (5k). painting? 5k. Pressure wash? 5k. a/c? 25k unless you want to lease (here's your sign).

variable or two stage, all I know is that I have a brand new 4 ton system that does not keep me cool. I'm leaning toward an installation issue.

 

[Valveman]

So, what kind of a price tag to install those loops and keep all those valves working.. oh I forgot your name.. valvman
Still hurts for all those K's. Payback will take a very long time over the pump and dump. I myself couldn't afford it. Drilling wells, or laying all that piping.

Yeah, not doing the ground loops. I already have 4 GPM of well water running 24/7 to a stock tank, so I just used that for the pump and dump HVAC system because it was free. If I quit using the water I will just switch to a regular air cooled compressor sitting outside the house.

 

[Valveman]

fair enough, but I was sold this unit by an a/c person. No attempt was made to explain, and at the time I was in therapy for over thinking things.

I happen to have moved into a Georgia county back in the early 90s where it has not become the $$ county in the state. That means if I want my gutters cleaned (5k). painting? 5k. Pressure wash? 5k. a/c? 25k unless you want to lease (here's your sign).

variable or two stage, all I know is that I have a brand new 4 ton system that does not keep me cool. I'm leaning toward an installation issue.

I think 2 stage would be OK, but I don't like the variable speed stuff. They claim the variable speed compressors save a lot of energy. But I have heard from many people that is true because they have so many problems they are not even running half the time.

 

[Ludington]

Here is the specs on the heat pump I may still be looking at. Going to be a lot of change to not use the water pump and dump system.

Thinking more about this... how can you justify the cost to putting in a loop system to replace your current pump and dump. I know mine costs me around 200/year , so what advantage does a loop get you, you get better efficiency from a well system too. Unless your running out of water. I hate to think of maintaining an antifreeze or glycol filled loop, with a flow center..
Unless your bored and have bunches of cash ... oh I forgot.. it's the valvman he is rich. all that patent money.

 

[cgilley]

I feel for you and in the case of my family the results were quite worse. To wit, my brother used to keep a loaded revolver between the bed springs and mattress of he and his wife's bed. One day his wife was changing the sheets, the gun fell to the floor and she was killed instantly when the gun discharged.

well, I suspect there is a lot more to that story. Contrary to movies and hollywood, firearms just don't discharge due to droppage. Cocked revolvers might.

In my case, I was just PFS (plain f*** stupid). In my opinion, a firearm locked away is useless for those moments. My office sits on the front of the house. I see people walking up the driveway I don't recognize, what good is a weapon locked up? Anyway, I had my 40 in my desk, I cleared the magazine, cycled the rack AND DID NOT CHECK THE CHAMBER. Second mistake, pulling the trigger because the weapon was cocked. Third mistake, pulling the trigger without thinking where the weapon was pointing. Serious wake up call. I'm grateful to this day no one was hurt other than my desk.

 

[Valveman]

Thinking more about this... how can you justify the cost to putting in a loop system to replace your current pump and dump. I know mine costs me around 200/year , so what advantage does a loop get you, you get better efficiency from a well system too. Unless your running out of water. I hate to think of maintaining an antifreeze or glycol filled loop, with a flow center..
Unless your bored and have bunches of cash ... oh I forgot.. it's the valvman he is rich. all that patent money.

Yeah, not doing the ground loops. I already have 4 GPM of well water running 24/7 to a stock tank, so I just used that for the pump and dump HVAC system because it was free. If I quit using the water I will just switch to a regular air cooled compressor sitting outside the house.

Patents cost a lot of money, never made me a dime. Would have been better off not getting a patent and just let anybody make one that wanted to. Only asked one percent for anyone who wanted a license anyway. Nobody wants to license or market a disruptive product for the same reason I am not a rich man. Disruptive products are good for the user, but not the inventor or manufacturer. When you sell something like the Cycle Stop Valve that doesn't cost much, last a long time, and is even repairable, the cash isn't just pouring in. Lol! But I do feel like a rich man as there are thing more important than money. I love my job as everyone is happy with our products and we don't have warranties or problems of any kind. I sleep so much better with all happy customers compared to having been in the pump and drilling business where everyone is out of water and mad before they even call, and get even madder when they find out how far behind you are and how much it is going to cost to get the water back going. We are just grateful we can make a comfortable living selling something that everyone loves because it saves them so much money. Saving people money is not the best way to get rich.

 

[Valveman]

well, I suspect there is a lot more to that story. Contrary to movies and hollywood, firearms just don't discharge due to droppage. Cocked revolvers might.

In my case, I was just PFS (plain f*** stupid). In my opinion, a firearm locked away is useless for those moments. My office sits on the front of the house. I see people walking up the driveway I don't recognize, what good is a weapon locked up? Anyway, I had my 40 in my desk, I cleared the magazine, cycled the rack AND DID NOT CHECK THE CHAMBER. Second mistake, pulling the trigger because the weapon was cocked. Third mistake, pulling the trigger without thinking where the weapon was pointing. Serious wake up call. I'm grateful to this day no one was hurt other than my desk.

Sorry for both of you. But I have to agree it would be extremely rare for dropping to cause a firearm to discharge. Even a cocked revolver would probably break the hammer off instead of firing, seen it happen. But if after dropping the clip on an auto, and cycling the rack doesn't eject the round in the chamber, it will go off when you pull the trigger and shoot whatever it is pointed at. Lol! Ouch! I am always careful where it is pointed when/if I dry fire, as sometimes they may not be dry.

 

[Ludington]

Yeah, not doing the ground loops. I already have 4 GPM of well water running 24/7 to a stock tank, so I just used that for the pump and dump HVAC system because it was free. If I quit using the water I will just switch to a regular air cooled compressor sitting outside the house.

Patents cost a lot of money, never made me a dime. Would have been better off not getting a patent and just let anybody make one that wanted to. Only asked one percent for anyone who wanted a license anyway. Nobody wants to license or market a disruptive product for the same reason I am not a rich man. Disruptive products are good for the user, but not the inventor or manufacturer. When you sell something like the Cycle Stop Valve that doesn't cost much, last a long time, and is even repairable, the cash isn't just pouring in. Lol! But I do feel like a rich man as there are thing more important than money. I love my job as everyone is happy with our products and we don't have warranties or problems of any kind. I sleep so much better with all happy customers compared to having been in the pump and drilling business where everyone is out of water and mad before they even call, and get even madder when they find out how far behind you are and how much it is going to cost to get the water back going. We are just grateful we can make a comfortable living selling something that everyone loves because it saves them so much money. Saving people money is not the best way to get rich.

Didn't mean to insult.. just having some fun.. or trying
To. Actually have always been impressed by anyone that can make a buisness selling stuff . I was going to go into kitchen cabinets, but about lost my mind thinking about where the next job would come from. Went back to pushing keys for a bank.. but that was a good job for the first 13 years, the last 2 were crap. When the senior vp called to lay me off. I actually said thank you..