Global warming is real, they say?
Variable speed HVAC units?
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Don't get us started on Nobel Prizes.........
Thanks everyone! Good stuff. If the refrigerant is causing a hole in the ozone, then I stand corrected. But I have a hard time believing that or that they can even measure such a thing. We all know the numbers on the "global warming" thing have been manipulated. But I still can't watch a nature show without them saying "the poor (animal, take your pick), will soon be extinct because of the effects of man made global warming". Could be the data about the hole in the ozone is just as accurate. Plus, the refrigerant has to get out of the machine before it can "destroy the environment". If the refrigerant is good stuff and installed in a well made compressor, the same refrigerant will still be in the machine 40-50 years later. Only if the compressor is made to planned obsolescence standards and develops a leak will the refrigerant get into the atmosphere. When the house is being demolished before the old HVAC unit fails, the refrigerant can be properly removed, stored, even cleaned and reused. Follow the money is right. It is less about a hole in the ozone or global warming than it is about making sure we keep consuming more and more products by making them not last long. Give me a well built compressor with a good refrigerant and I will pay a little more in energy to have something that will last my lifetime. I think if you add it all up, having something that will last, even if it is not the most efficient, will save considerable energy over replacing the same equipment several times over the same period of time.
Amen!
Still thinking about refrigerants. I have a 1944 propane refrigerator with a freezer on top that uses Ammonia for the refrigerant. Even after several decades of being used as a bolt bin, it still works great. Just needed a little cleaning and paint. It would not be good if that Ammonia got out of the machine and into my house and then the environment. But the frig is so well made it has the same Ammonia they put in it at the factory in 1944. I don't know how many times I have had to move all my food over to the old 1944 frig when the newest one went out. The last one only lasted 3 years. I have a graveyard of old refrigerators/freezers/AC units that have failed in recent years. But I have some old window unit AC's and a 50 year old electric freezer that I count on when the new stuff fails, just like I do the old refrigerator.
It's amazing how well the old stuff lasted. Everything now is built to fail.
Well I guess I jinxed it. Was about the hottest day of the year yesterday, and couldn't keep the house cool. HP never shut off all day. But water temp differential is only about 20F when it should be 25-30F. Running and sounds good just not blowing much cold air. Don't see any leaks in the refrigerant, so guessing the compressor is going out. Other compressor problems I have had the compressor just quit. Is it possible for a compressor to just quit making as much cold or could it be something wrong with the coil, which also looks good?
What is your incomming water temp. I've found on really hot day that can change a couple degrees. Which makes the hp not be able to cool as well.
in reference to the original title, yes. They suck. Well, let me put it another way - they suck.
last summer my 4 ton Trane upstairs was on it's last legs. I know 4 tons is a lot, but I had 11 kids in the house in 2000, so I needed cooling. And heating. I will happily pay my utility bills if I am at the temperature I want. I was in the middle of a bathroom renovation, it died, the contractor suggested "the guy he uses all time" and this guy made a case for a 2 stage Goodman. Made in America. Well, okay, but if it doesn't keep me cool...
This is a dual stage 4 ton unit. Temp goes above 90f, the upstairs warms up. Oh he says, must be your insulation. Really? The 20 year old unit had no issue keeping the upstairs cool... he got pissy. He can f*** off. Can't wait for the office to call for maintenance
. I'll go back to the guy who I should have used, spent maybe 3k more and been happy.
Two stage units suck.
last summer my 4 ton Trane upstairs was on it's last legs. I know 4 tons is a lot, but I had 11 kids in the house in 2000, so I needed cooling. And heating. I will happily pay my utility bills if I am at the temperature I want. I was in the middle of a bathroom renovation, it died, the contractor suggested "the guy he uses all time" and this guy made a case for a 2 stage Goodman. Made in America. Well, okay, but if it doesn't keep me cool...
This is a dual stage 4 ton unit. Temp goes above 90f, the upstairs warms up. Oh he says, must be your insulation. Really? The 20 year old unit had no issue keeping the upstairs cool... he got pissy. He can f*** off. Can't wait for the office to call for maintenance
. I'll go back to the guy who I should have used, spent maybe 3k more and been happy.Two stage units suck.
Yeah really hot today. Incoming at 88F. But it has been working fine with discharge at 114F. Today discharge is barely 100F and the house is hot. Been on phone with an HVAC guy I trust. Said with R22 I should just start over with a new unit. Looking at a regular air cooled compressor, but don't have much place to put it. Lines will be 60'+. Sticking in a couple of window units (as was mentioned) in the meantime or it will be too hot to work in here. Trying to get a 4 ton without any variable speed anything in it. Looks like also building new platform, changing intake location. Not going to be fun. Wish I could just get some R22 and a new compressor, but that is no longer possible. If I fix that something else would break anyway. Guess I will just bite the bullet and replace it all. Crap!
Thanks. Going to try and stay away from the variable speed or two stage stuff.in reference to the original title, yes. They suck. Well, let me put it another way - they suck.
last summer my 4 ton Trane upstairs was on it's last legs. I know 4 tons is a lot, but I had 11 kids in the house in 2000, so I needed cooling. And heating. I will happily pay my utility bills if I am at the temperature I want. I was in the middle of a bathroom renovation, it died, the contractor suggested "the guy he uses all time" and this guy made a case for a 2 stage Goodman. Made in America. Well, okay, but if it doesn't keep me cool...
This is a dual stage 4 ton unit. Temp goes above 90f, the upstairs warms up. Oh he says, must be your insulation. Really? The 20 year old unit had no issue keeping the upstairs cool... he got pissy. He can f*** off. Can't wait for the office to call for maintenance
Two stage units suck.
it's hard too. Government (EPA) shoveling this crap. To be fair, I'm bringing out my go to, no bullshit guy to look into it. He's the guy who I should have used and will use to replace my downstairs unit. It's entirely likely the first set of bozos just did not install it correctly. Looks like I need to exit retirement for a few more years.
Nearly all my go to no BS guys are long gone. The young guys only know what they are being taught, "fed". Government picks the winners, otherwise they would never win.
I hate you.
I get it. My wife took my firearms away... I had an accidental discharge. True story, scared the crap out of me, much more respect for things that go boom. Damn oak desk has a bullet hole in it. I really have lost the thought to why I was saying this.
But this government bs - it needs to end - it's a cancer on common sense.I say install two stage units on Congress and the White House...
Lol. I feel ya. Still feels like I'm 25.
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
The thread title is "variable speed HVAC units" when y'all are mostly talking about two stage a/c compressors. BIG difference.
When I upgraded my home system some years ago I went with a York with a DC variable speed blower. Heating and a/c two different things as well. I did this for a number of reasons, all real, and the variable speed blower and modulating gas burner solved them all. First, it was in Michigan where winter temps can go below zero and stay that way for days. Then the unit was in the basement right below the family room, and when it was on, it was very noisy as a LOT of air was being pushed around.
We had LONG shoulder seasons (March-May, and September-December) and the modulating gas burner made sense. Why burn 125K BTU in April when it's 40 degrees outside? The right answer is you don't. So, the new unit was quiet, since the blower rarely ran at full speed, but the blower ran at 10% velocity all the time. We eliminated all temperature stratification in the home.
Y'all know that heating is very different than a/c (which is more difficult and takes longer) and I don't think the two stage compressors are worth the extra $$$.
Here in NC, the ductwork is that flexible insulated stuff, so it's quieter. The HVAC units themselves are essentially silent in the living space of the home. So, I don't think I'll "upgrade" to anything different since I don't have any of the noise or temperature stratification issues I had in Michigan. What the builder put in here works. I might choose a heat pump if and when these systems fail, but that would be decided at the time.
When I upgraded my home system some years ago I went with a York with a DC variable speed blower. Heating and a/c two different things as well. I did this for a number of reasons, all real, and the variable speed blower and modulating gas burner solved them all. First, it was in Michigan where winter temps can go below zero and stay that way for days. Then the unit was in the basement right below the family room, and when it was on, it was very noisy as a LOT of air was being pushed around.
We had LONG shoulder seasons (March-May, and September-December) and the modulating gas burner made sense. Why burn 125K BTU in April when it's 40 degrees outside? The right answer is you don't. So, the new unit was quiet, since the blower rarely ran at full speed, but the blower ran at 10% velocity all the time. We eliminated all temperature stratification in the home.
Y'all know that heating is very different than a/c (which is more difficult and takes longer) and I don't think the two stage compressors are worth the extra $$$.
Here in NC, the ductwork is that flexible insulated stuff, so it's quieter. The HVAC units themselves are essentially silent in the living space of the home. So, I don't think I'll "upgrade" to anything different since I don't have any of the noise or temperature stratification issues I had in Michigan. What the builder put in here works. I might choose a heat pump if and when these systems fail, but that would be decided at the time.
I've got some r22.. probably 10 pounds left in the can. I've no need and no one wants it. Maybe when one of my relatives need some. But probably not. My hp uses 410a now. I'd rather have my old r22. But I replaced with a single stage. It does have a variable fan.. it only runs when the hp is running, not all the time...but I never notice that creating trouble. 88 seems terribly high, no wonder your having problems. I think mine is in the mid 60s, it may have hit 68 when it was 100 out. I don't know my outgoing, but I think my swing is about 10 degrees. Where is that 88 comming from ? I'd never have a 2 or variable stage, they just run to much.
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Just an add on, once upon a time many years ago, I bought a 30 pound can of r22 for 30 dollars, thought that was going to kill me. Heaven knows what my 10 pounds is worth if someone was getting charged for it.
I'm in sc, just below charlotte nc. Just had new ducts put in. Main trunk was metal, wrapped in insulation. The extensions were flex. Never hear any duct noise, some air volume comming from the registers though. But that's normal I would think (Unless like yours, where it runs all the time at low speed, but that shouldn't cost much, hopfully no more than a 200 watt lightbulb)
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Was my OLD home in MI where I had the always on at 10% air handler. Here is more conventional.