DIY - Clawfoot tub with an ASSE 1070 valve

[Cskog1]

I'm looking to install a clawfoot tub in our bathroom. Everything seems ready to go (have the tub, floor is plenty strong enough) but I live in a town that has adopted the 2015 international plumbing code and I need to have a thermostatic mixing valve that meets asse 1070 by the bath. The asse 1017 at the water tank in the basement isn't good enough. Any thoughts on how to plumb this without making the plumbing end of the tub look all frankensteinish? Three days trolling for ideas on Google turned up no similar work.

 

[frodo]

http://www.shop4classics.com/product.asp?lid=2234





I have strong gogglfoo

 

[SHR]

Spout below the flood level of the tub is a big no no. No inspector will pass this faucet either. Nice faucet though.

 

[frodo]

Spout below the flood level of the tub is a big no no. No inspector will pass this faucet either. Nice faucet though.

maybe not SHR, read this.

tell me what you think

Product Features:
Swing arm couplers for variable 3 3/8" - 11" centers.
Tested to remain within 1 degree Fahrenheit of desired setting throughout operation.
Automatic temperature stop of 104 degree Fahrenheit.
Serves as pressure balance, temperature stop, and anti-siphon.
5" spout length.
7 1/2" wall to spout.
Handheld shower with 5' hose.

 

[KULTULZ]

Technically speaking...

Could the flood rim be interpreted as the overflow level?

 

[frodo]

no, the overflow is connected to the sewer,

 

[KULTULZ]

no, the overflow is connected to the sewer,

OK...

...but...remember I am on a learning curve here and not arguing with your knowledge..

SOURCE- http://www.dictionaryofconstruction.com/definition/flood-level-rim.html

flood-level rim

Definition

The edge of a plumbing fixture or receptacle over which water will flow if the device is full.

1) If the overflow (properly sized and unobstructed) will prevent the water level (if the faucet is left running), from actually reaching the top of the tub or sink, why would it matter?

2) And why would it matter if the overflow is connected to the sewer?

The faucet suggested, even if having a backflow device incorporated, would still be illegal (again IMO) as the spout is at the overflow drain level.

How is it then that these popular faucets styles are freely sold and installed if not to code?

If you do not tell me what state your in

It seems I am in an continual state of confusion...

 

[frodo]

ok, lets say the elec. company is digging up your front yard, you forgot to pay your bill and they are really REALLY pissed.
they bust the sewer line and the water line. the sewer is backed up.
and the water line. because the road in front of your house is lower than your yard.
the pipe starts back siphoning.

at the same time. you were getting ready for a nice long soak. in your tub

the sewer being backed up. will not let the water drain out of the overflow

so the tub fills up and the spout is under water.

then the back siphoning starts. sucking in the funk you just washed off

highly unlikely all that will happen at one time? hell yes, but it could,

Common since , says the over flow is ok.
the code says it is not, and clearly states flood level rim

it is to protect the health of the public.,

 

[frodo]

OK...


How is it then that these popular faucets styles are freely sold and installed if not to code?



:

it is all how you install it. that faucet installed on the wall would be accepable

but not inside the tub

but, i am not sure THAT faucet is illegal, the NOTE, would bear looking into
if i were interested. personally, i dont have the time to fool with it

 

[KULTULZ]

ok, lets say the elec. company is digging up your front yard, you forgot to pay your bill and they are really REALLY pissed.
they bust the sewer line and the water line. the sewer is backed up.
and the water line. because the road in front of your house is lower than your yard.
the pipe starts back siphoning.

at the same time. you were getting ready for a nice long soak. in your tub

the sewer being backed up. will not let the water drain out of the overflow

so the tub fills up and the spout is under water.

then the back siphoning starts. sucking in the funk you just washed off

highly unlikely all that will happen at one time? hell yes, but it could,

Common since , says the over flow is ok.
the code says it is not, and clearly states flood level rim

it is to protect the health of the public.,

An earlier post-

maybe not SHR, read this.

tell me what you think

Product Features:
Swing arm couplers for variable 3 3/8" - 11" centers.
Tested to remain within 1 degree Fahrenheit of desired setting throughout operation.
Automatic temperature stop of 104 degree Fahrenheit.
Serves as pressure balance, temperature stop, and anti-siphon.
5" spout length.
7 1/2" wall to spout.
Handheld shower with 5' hose.

It cannot siphon with the included anti-siphon feature, correct?

 

[KULTULZ]

it is all how you install it. that faucet installed on the wall would be acceptable

but not inside the tub

but, i am not sure THAT faucet is illegal, the NOTE, would bear looking into
if i were interested. personally, i dont have the time to fool with it

If the spout has the length to reach inside the flood rim if wall installed.

Take the time frodo as time is short and inquiring minds want to know.

Don't you just love helpers like me that ask so many questions? We give you constant frustration(s) that gives you good reason to stop at the local honky-tonk on the way home and run some cold Budweiser's down your neck...

 

[KULTULZ]

I'm looking to install a clawfoot tub in our bathroom. Everything seems ready to go (have the tub, floor is plenty strong enough) but I live in a town that has adopted the 2015 international plumbing code and I need to have a thermostatic mixing valve that meets asse 1070 by the bath.

The asse 1017 at the water tank in the basement isn't good enough.

Any thoughts on how to plumb this without making the plumbing end of the tub look all frankensteinish? Three days trolling for ideas on Google turned up no similar work.

Here- http://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com/Antique_Clawfoot_Tub_Faucets_s/4109.htm is a selection of claw foot tub faucets (note differing styles on page selection).

They also have a help line to find exactly what you need.

INTERESTING READING-

From WATTS Website-

A Word about American Society of Sanitary Engineering (ASSE) Standards 1016, 1017 and 1070

ASSE 1016 covers the delivery of water at the individual fixtures that are adjusted and controlled by the user. Therefore, it addresses very precise and immediate temperature regulation requirements. This standard covers three types of valves: Pressure Balancing, Thermostatic and Combined Pressure Balancing/Thermostatic. Watts ASSE 1016 listed valves meet the thermostatic requirements of this standard.

ASSE 1070 is a recently approved standard and the newest of the three standards. It covers control of maximum temperature to a fixture or group of fixtures; such as sinks, lavatories or bathtubs. The device may either be the final temperature regulation or have water further tempered downstream with the addition of cold water.

ASSE 1017, on the other hand, does not address final temperature control at fixtures and appliances. It is concerned with valves used at the source of hot water for distribution to the supply system, and therefore allows wider variation of the outlet temperature at higher flow rates.

ASSE 1017 listed devices should never be used to deliver water directly to the user. These valves should be used in combination with an ASSE 1016 and/or ASSE 1070 listed devices.

For more information, please check the ASSE website at: www.ASSE-plumbing.org

 

[frodo]

sent an email to the manufacture of that pretty lil claw foot tub valve

Dear

Thank you for your inquiry. The thermostatic valve serves as a pressure balance, temperature stop, and anti-siphon. It supplies and protects both the spout and the handheld shower.

Thank you for visiting Shop 4 Classics...
Customer Service
www.shop4classics.com



From:
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 5:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Thermostatic Clawfoot Tub Faucet Question

Product Link: www.shop4classics.com/product.asp?lid=2234



hello, I noticed the thermos tic clawfoot tub faucet , in the description
says it is anti siphon, is this the spout? or the hand held device ?
or both ?

with the spout below the flood level rim, this is a deal breaker

thank you

confirmed by the manuuacture, safe to use on a claw foot

at $1000.00, damn sure better be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KULTULZ]

sent an email to the manufacture of that pretty lil claw foot tub valve

Dear

Thank you for your inquiry. The thermostatic valve serves as a pressure balance, temperature stop, and anti-siphon. It supplies and protects both the spout and the handheld shower.

Thank you for visiting Shop 4 Classics...
Customer Service- www.shop4classics.com

From:
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 5:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Thermostatic Clawfoot Tub Faucet Question

Product Link: www.shop4classics.com/product.asp?lid=2234

hello, I noticed the thermos tic clawfoot tub faucet , in the description
says it is anti siphon, is this the spout? or the hand held device ?
or both ?

with the spout below the flood level rim, this is a deal breaker

thank you

confirmed by the manuuacture, safe to use on a claw foot

at $1000.00, damn sure better be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After studying ASSE 1016 & 1070, I am not sure it meets the latter's requirements.

I think I would contact the AHJ before laying out that kind of money and possibly getting bad news after purchase...

THANX frodo!

 

[Cskog1]

Thank you all this has been very helpful.

Taking this into consideration with my own searches, where I gagged at the cost of some faucets and seemed unable to find clear evidence that any of the thermostatic faucets even meet ASSE 1070, I wondered whether I should just install a conforming mixing valve OUTSIDE the tub at the point the hot and cold water come through the floor. Then I'd run the new "hot water" line to the bath and put in a tradition cheaper set of faucets with individual hot and cold knobs. It would also avoid the potential siphoning issue that was raised. The faucet on our tub is "tub mounted" so a faucet below the overflow does appear to be an issue with the faucet frodo first showed.

While not be pretty, would this exposed valve setup meet the 2015 IPC?

http://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com/...line_Thermostatic_Valve_p/sym-5-225-ck-ms.htm

 

[KULTULZ]

I ciphered a lot on this the other night and came to the same conclusion you have, a mixing valve @ the fixture(s) (not necessarily correct as I am not a professional).

The faucet would have to be certified by the manufacturer (ASSE 1070) and if the AHJ is not familiar with it, a certification should be included in the box.

Another factor is that all fixtures must comply with the ruling, so say the shower and lavatory faucets would have to be included on the tempering valve circuit (the way I read it).

The faucet shown was by STROM PLUMBING, the crème' la crème' of fixtures. Quality cheaper faucets of the same style(s) are available.

From WATTS Website-


Quote:
A Word about American Society of Sanitary Engineering (ASSE) Standards 1016, 1017 and 1070

ASSE 1016 covers the delivery of water at the individual fixtures that are adjusted and controlled by the user. Therefore, it addresses very precise and immediate temperature regulation requirements. This standard covers three types of valves: Pressure Balancing, Thermostatic and Combined Pressure Balancing/Thermostatic. Watts ASSE 1016 listed valves meet the thermostatic requirements of this standard.

ASSE 1070 is a recently approved standard and the newest of the three standards. It covers control of maximum temperature to a fixture or group of fixtures; such as sinks, lavatories or bathtubs. The device may either be the final temperature regulation or have water further tempered downstream with the addition of cold water.

ASSE 1017, on the other hand, does not address final temperature control at fixtures and appliances. It is concerned with valves used at the source of hot water for distribution to the supply system, and therefore allows wider variation of the outlet temperature at higher flow rates.

ASSE 1017 listed devices should never be used to deliver water directly to the user. These valves should be used in combination with an ASSE 1016 and/or ASSE 1070 listed devices.

For more information, please check the ASSE website at: www.ASSE-plumbing.org

I would try to put the valve(s) behind the wall if possible (must be accessible) (don't know your exact install.

All of this subject to professional review...