Watts Hot Water Recirculating System

[Twowaxhack]

Who here believes 95 degree water being pushed into the cold line is a recipe for legionella to be planted into the cold side where remediation isn’t common ? I certainly do.

The cold side wouldn’t get routinely sanitized even if a legionella sanitation protocol was being followed.

Thankfully most heathy adults are resistant to the strain of legionella that’s found in plumbing water systems.

So these bypass systems are questionable and may not be around forever……

 

[MicEd69]

It’s not my responsibility to be current on every plumbing product just because I’m a plumber.

I agree that it is not the responsibility that very plumber be current on "every plumbing product", but everyone from licensed plumbers to licensed hairdressers to Registered Professional Engineers are required to take and maintain records of continuing education and training to stay up to date on current trends in their respective industries.

But you are correct, "What should be and what reality is are usually way different." There are some licensed "XXXXX" that should even be in the "XXXXX" trade.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I agree that it is not the responsibility that very plumber be current on "every plumbing product", but everyone from licensed plumbers to licensed hairdressers to Registered Professional Engineers are required to take and maintain records of continuing education and training to stay up to date on current trends in their respective industries.

But you are correct, "What should be and what reality is are usually way different." There are some licensed "XXXXX" that should even be in the "XXXXX" trade.

We’re not required to have continuing education. We have a code book to follow.

 

[MicEd69]

We’re not required to have continuing education. We have a code book to follow.

WOW! In Missouri plumbers do as well as hairdressers, etc. But I guess Alabama is indeed in the 20th century just like Mitchell-DIY-Guy said.

 

[Twowaxhack]

WOW! In Missouri plumbers do as well as hairdressers, etc. But I guess Alabama is indeed in the 20th century just like Mitchell-DIY-Guy said.

There’s just as much Hackery in Missouri as it is in Alabama and the only difference is you’re just paying more for it than we are. Government is rarely if ever the answer to a satisfactory result.

Mitchell does unlicensed and uninsured work so where are the code officials enforcement in his area ? Holding a chair down at the Waffle house ?

But it doesn’t surprise me that you carry the opinions you have, you’re not in the plumbing business and never have been.

 

[MicEd69]

There’s just as much Hackery in Missouri as it is in Alabama

Apparently not in Licensed Plumbers.

I agree that government is not the answer to most things.

My point is that any "real" professional should attempt to maintain some level of knowledge on current trends. Not to do so reduces their ability to perform in their respective industry. Nor am I talking about code enforcement, but continuing education in a person's field of work.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Apparently not in Licensed Plumbers.

I agree that government is not the answer to most things.

My point is that any "real" professional should attempt to maintain some level of knowledge on current trends. Not to do so reduces their ability to perform in their respective industry. Nor am I talking about code enforcement, but continuing education in a person's field of work.

Continuing education is just another way for the government to get into a plumbers pocket.

In Mitchell’s case continuing education didn’t help that plumber did it ? Of course not because there will always be idiots.

All I need is the code book, the book of laws. That’s all I need, I don’t need the state to educate me, I’ve provided that for myself.

I have more plumbing experience than all the plumbing inspectors COMBINED in some jurisdictions I work in. They’re the ones who need continuing education IMO.

 

[MicEd69]

You are confused. The government does not provide the continuing education, it simply requires that the licensee have a certain amount of it to be able to renew their license. The training comes from other educational sources, manufacturer's courses, and credit is even given for teaching courses to others.

I made a bad assumption thinking that most states would have similar requirements as Missouri. But as Alabama does not require continuing education for licensed plumbers, it appears that North Carolina doesn't either. So, there was no continuing education required for the licensed plumber in Mitchell's case.

And the issue we are discussing has NOTHING to do with plumbing inspectors. Nor has it anything to do with someone performing unlicensed and/or uninsured work. The issue is that some licensed plumbers are not up to date on current trends in plumbing. Case in point, this one.

 

[Twowaxhack]

You are confused. The government does not provide the continuing education, it simply requires that the licensee have a certain amount of it to be able to renew their license. The training comes from other educational sources, manufacturer's courses, and credit is even given for teaching courses to others.

I made a bad assumption thinking that most states would have similar requirements as Missouri. But as Alabama does not require continuing education for licensed plumbers, it appears that North Carolina doesn't either. So, there was no continuing education required for the licensed plumber in Mitchell's case.

And the issue we are discussing has NOTHING to do with plumbing inspectors. Nor has it anything to do with someone performing unlicensed and/or uninsured work. The issue is that some licensed plumbers are not up to date on current trends in plumbing. Case in point, this one.

I think you’re confused that a continuing education class would inform a plumber what a bypass valve for a diy hot water system pump would look like.

It wouldn’t. And it costs money for continuing education in every state no matter who gets it, it’s a burden on the plumber that gets passed down to the consumer. But you just assume it would, it wouldn’t.

It’s a money grab controlled by a bu·reauc·ra·cy…….look it up.

Unlicensed work ruins the industry. It also puts the public at risk. Big facts………

Florida requires continuing education. Here’s what a fellow plumber posted about how he does his continuing Ed to satisfy the state. I’m a moderator on a professional plumbers forum with plumbers from all over the Us and Canada. 14 hours of continuing education in 15 minutes. It’s a money grab for sure.


It looks like only SOME jurisdictions require continuing Ed in your great state of Missouri, the show me state. Here I’ll show you.

And it’s only required every THREE years. A lot of new products could come out between testing periods……..

 

[Twowaxhack]

Prometric the testing company that administers Missouri plumbing license tests is owned by a Chinese company located in Hong Kong.

Go figure……

Why doesn’t the plumbing code follow CDC guidelines in regard to domestic hot water and legionella ?

Riddle me that…….

https://www.cdc.gov/legionella/wmp/control-toolkit/potable-water-systems.html

None of these hot water pumps and bypass valves conform to these legionella preventing guidelines.

Plumbing codes, inspectors etc do not run plumbing code. Big money does. It’s not about safety, it’s about big money. Pay to play. Want something code code approved then all you have to do is throw enough money their way.

 

[MicEd69]

You are correct, there are a lot of "professionals" who do take the easy road in obtaining PEUs. But some who do want to keep up on the latest trends would use the PEUs for continuing their education on new plumbing developments. And the $49 per year could easily be passed on to your clients at 10 cents per hour, assuming you had 500 hours of billable time each year.

As for licensed plumbers not knowing about a bypass valve, well you did! And based on your comments, you haven't had any courses on them. And I'm just as surprised as Mitchell-DIY-Guy that a licensed plumber could not at least research on their phone and find out what that "cross over device" was before tearing it out. It's like any education. Degrees and classes do not fully educate a person, but they do make you understand how to think and approach problems you come across.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I understand your argument. But in reality those courses don’t do much to keep you up on current products.

The fact is there are good and bad plumbers and nothings going to change that.

You’re talking continuing education to a guy who doesn’t think I should have to have my work inspected. . Does a Dr have an inspector check his work after surgery ?

Does an auto mechanic have an inspector check his work after installing your tires ?

Does a chef have an inspector to insure your chicken is cooked ? Wouldn’t be practical would it ? Sure they get spot checked…..but how would that help your piece of chicken ? It wouldn’t.

Point is all these professions rely on the professional being professional.

Yet the state feels like I should pay $xx.xx to install a water heater or a toilet at Mrs Jones house even though I’ve been in been in business 30 yrs and have a couple million In liability insurance. And the inspector they sent out is 25 yrs old

 

[TomFOhio]

I never said the amount of NG I used was due to standby losses from a recirculating hot water system. I was simply stating that my entire natural gas bill has gone from $12 a month up to $133 a month, based on my latest gas bill which I received just this morning.

Are you heating your pool??

 

[havasu]

It use to cost me $30 to heat the pool. Last time just to heat it once cost me $45. So nope, the NG is used just for my oven, stove, water heater and gas dryer. I'm in Southern Kommiefornia, where prices on utilities have gone thru the roof.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

It use to cost me $30 to heat the pool. Last time just to heat it once cost me $45. So nope, the NG is used just for my oven, stove, water heater and gas dryer. I'm in Southern Kommiefornia, where prices on utilities have gone thru the roof.

Solar hot water the way to go in SoCal for pool heating.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

And the inspector they sent out is 25 yrs old

Oh, that’s rich…

In many places however you’re not likely to find a 25 year old plumbing inspector (who right possibly couldn’t have the hours or experience to be a master or journeyman) but rather someone retired from the biz for one reason or another.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Oh, that’s rich…

In many places however you’re not likely to find a 25 year old plumbing inspector (who right possibly couldn’t have the hours or experience to be a master or journeyman) but rather someone retired from the biz for one reason or another

You can start your apprenticeship in high school and sit for the journeyman test at 18 and the masters 2 yrs later at 20 yrs old. Trade school also counts as work experience.

That’s what I did.

But honestly I think these government bureaucracies can pretty much hire whoever they want if they need to fill the position. The school system tried to hire me to teach plumbing as a vocation at a local high school and said I’d have 2 yrs to get a 2 yr college degree. So basically I’d be a teacher going to school to be a teacher

Meanwhile in Florida,
https://www.mysuncoast.com/2024/02/19/married-couple-arrested-charges-beastiality/

 

[havasu]

Meanwhile in Florida,
https://www.mysuncoast.com/2024/02/19/married-couple-arrested-charges-beastiality/

So many questions that I don't want the answers to!

 

[jbellis]

After having multiple failures of the Watts comfort (sensor) valve that is at the distant faucets, I took one apart and made a Youtube video of repairing it. Just posting this in case it's of interest to others who hate burning $50 bills for fun. In my case the little heat-sensitive expansion piston was seized, so a drop of penetrant did the trick. I subsequently noticed another Youtuber who simply submerged the whole valve in CLR rust remover. Mine was probably too locked for that, but his is still a good first try.

 

[havasu]

Thank you for this great video! Just by dissecting the "dookickey", it gave me an understanding with how they work.