Watts Hot Water Recirculating System

[havasu]

Can someone please explain how to wire either a motion detector, a push button, a light switch, or any way to activate the Watts pump? My W/H is on the west side of the house, probably 70' away from a bathroom I want warm water at. My Watts pump (with a 15 minute timer option) is above the water heater, plugged into an outlet I added above the W/H. What sources are you using to tell the timer, located 70' away to turn on?

 

[MicEd69]

I powered the outlet for my pump from a small control panel I built. I also installed a push button in the kitchen and the master bathroom that actuates a delay off timer inside that control panel. Push either if those buttons and it starts the timer and the circulating pump. When the timer times out, it turns off the power to the outlet. I don't use the timer on the pump.

 

[MicEd69]

You could always install a motion detector and wire in a delay on break to the pump so once it activated once that it has a set time to sit idle before it’s started again.

Sequence of operation :

Motion detected, pump turns on, pump turns off, delay starts (30 min, 60 min ) etc, pump resets.

This way your wife wouldn’t be restarting the pump the whole time she’s in the bath. You could set the delay to any time period you wanted.

Look, I’m trying to give you some work to do. So get busy and post the pictures as you tear into it.

I’m about to load up my equipment and head out to a backed up sewer with water coming out from under one toilet and holding water in the tubs and other toilet. No cleanout. Too bad you’re not around here, I’d come pick you up.

Actually, I'm in the process of developing an algorithm to control my hot water circulating system with an Emerson DCS, (Distributed Control System). And I plan on using artificial intelligence feedback to enhance the program over time.

DeltaV rules! (That's Emerson's Automation Platform solutions. My previous employer where I was Project Manager on Refinery, Poly Silicon, and Chemical plant instrumentation and control enhancement projects up to $675M. So no thank you for your offer to assit you in your sewer cleaning chore.)

 

[Twowaxhack]

Actually, I'm in the process of developing an algorithm to control my hot water circulating system with an Emerson DCS, (Distributed Control System). And I plan on using artificial intelligence feedback to enhance the program over time.

DeltaV rules! (That's Emerson's Automation Platform solutions. My previous employer where I was Project Manager on Refinery, Poly Silicon, and Chemical plant instrumentation and control enhancement projects up to $675M. So no thank you for your offer to assit you in your sewer cleaning chore.)

I could save you a lot of trouble by just installing a motion detector. Done.

 

[Twowaxhack]

That sewer cleaning chore turned into $850 plus I’m going back to reroute the pipe for another $2600.

That’s in Alabama money, so similar to a 3rd world country. I’m pretty much rich

But yeah, a motion detector would give you hot water without buttons to do everything people do in the bathroom besides just showering.

But if you’re happy with having to perform button pushing then that’s cool with me, I couldn’t do it.

 

[MicEd69]

a motion detector would give you hot water without buttons to do everything people do in the bathroom besides just showering.

So does running the pump 24-7 or 6:00AM until midnight. But those 2 options, as well as the motion detector, increases the run time on the pump more than required. And while I've never been in such a big hurry to not wait on the pump to replace the "cold" water resident in the hot water line, worst case is I purge the water like most homes in the US do now.

 

[Twowaxhack]

So I guess if you want to wash your hands after using the toilet then you push the button on the way to the toilet. That way once you’re done with the toilet the water will be hot.

With a motion detector and only allowing the pump to run once every 15,30,etc minutes even if there is motion. That cuts down on the unnecessary pump cycles but provides the hot water without having to push a button every time.

But even if you just did the motion detector alone it would only run when someone is in the bathroom. Usually if I’m in the bathroom then I’m using hot water. So it would be perfect for me because we don’t stay in the bathroom much unless we need to be there. 1hr in the morning and 1hr at night then you have toilet uses at random throughout the day that hands get washed afterwards with warm water.

 

[MicEd69]

I guess my bathroom is bigger than yours and is used for more things. It includes our dirty clothes hamper, drying racks for my wife's delicates, wife's makeup, medications, vitamins, etc. Most of the time my wife and I are in the bathroom, we DON'T need or use the hot water.

But yes, I do push the button on the way to the toilet.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Yeah my bathroom floor space is about 10 x 6 but then you have a double vanity that’s about 72x24 and the shower is 60x60 with his/hers faucets. The bathtub is 72x42. The toilet room is 42x60. There’s a linen closet that’s 36x60. The master closet is attached and it’s 14x8.

So when you walk in the bath you’re looking at a lot of doors but the floor space isn’t that big.

We don’t keep drugs in the bathroom because of the humidity and we usually take vitamins with food so we have a locked cabinet in the kitchen for all that type stuff. The water heater for the master is in a closet in the laundry that backs up to the master closet. It takes 4 seconds for hot water to reach my shower and 8 seconds to the lavatory, it’s across the room from the shower.

 

[Ludington]

Yeah my bathroom floor space is about 10 x 6 but then you have a double vanity that’s about 72x24 and the shower is 60x60 with his/hers faucets. The bathtub is 72x42. The toilet room is 42x60. There’s a linen closet that’s 36x60. The master closet is attached and it’s 14x8.

So when you walk in the bath you’re looking at a lot of doors but the floor space isn’t that big.

We don’t keep drugs in the bathroom because of the humidity and we usually take vitamins with food so we have a locked cabinet in the kitchen for all that type stuff. The water heater for the master is in a closet in the laundry that backs up to the master closet. It takes 4 seconds for hot water to reach my shower and 8 seconds to the lavatory, it’s across the room from the shower.

Switching... a locked cabinet for vitamins ? Do you have little ones that might take them ?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Switching... a locked cabinet for vitamins ? Do you have little ones that might take them ?

“ Locked cabinet in the kitchen for that TYPE stuff “

I don’t want anyone stealing my Quaaludes, I only have a few left

There was a dude in high school that drove a big yellow Buick and we spray painted “ 714” down the side

 

[MicEd69]

Yeah my bathroom floor space is about 10 x 6 but then you have a double vanity that’s about 72x24 and the shower is 60x60 with his/hers faucets. The bathtub is 72x42. The toilet room is 42x60. There’s a linen closet that’s 36x60. The master closet is attached and it’s 14x8.

So when you walk in the bath you’re looking at a lot of doors but the floor space isn’t that big.

We don’t keep drugs in the bathroom because of the humidity and we usually take vitamins with food so we have a locked cabinet in the kitchen for all that type stuff. The water heater for the master is in a closet in the laundry that backs up to the master closet. It takes 4 seconds for hot water to reach my shower and 8 seconds to the lavatory, it’s across the room from the shower.

So, if I had your layout with a water heater in my basement, every time I went into the master closet, the motion detector would turn on the circulating pump. See my point now?

Our master bath has an open concept. It shares a 22' wall with the master bedroom and is about 14' wide. The entry door is on the end of the 22' wall, with the shower on the left 14' wall followed by a freestanding whirlpool tub on a 18" elevated pad. This engineer didn't like that as it's pretty impractical, but the home decorator (aka wife) loved the look. The double vanity is along the 22' shared wall and the toilet and bidet is kinda in the corner past the vanity. The towel closet takes up 6' of the 14' wall and is only 18" deep. My wife's fold down drying racks for her sweaters and delicates is opposite the double vanities. We rarely close the bathroom door being retired and it's only us in the house. And when the kids and grandkids come over, we usually only close the bedroom door. With a bathroom that large, hardly ever closing the door, and keeping our medications in their bottles, we don't really have a problem with humidity.

 

[havasu]

They say the moisture is bad on pills, and shouldn't be kept in a wet bathroom.

So far, 32 posts, and I still have no idea how a switch would be wired to the pump, unless you consider it similar to a switch leg, using 14/2 Romex? i guess that is feasible, but I was imagining using a small doorbell wire, like 28 gauge to some servo unit.

My little water pusher activates for 15 minutes at 630am, 730am, 930am, 5pm, 6pm, and 1030pm. I have found pump activation during these times eliminate lots of water waste, without wearing out the pump, but keeping the warm water "warm" enough, which gets hot very quickly after that. Most people are very routine and I this works for my family.

I am not worried about the power consumption, but concerned with wearing out the motor on the pomp, as well as concern for premature wearing out of the elbows in my copper pipes. Is this a true concern?

 

[wpns]

Depends on your skillset, you could do this with Shelly devices pretty easily, but:

That’s my hammer, yours might be different.

I don’t think you can burn out Taco pumps, I’ve had one running for 18 years in a solar hot water application. Get the smallest one, you don’t need gallons per minute.

If I were doing this, I’d use a return line and a thermostatic control.

 

[havasu]

My brother in law just installed those wi-fi connecting light switches throughout his house. I never considered using such a gizmo before entering the bathroom, so I'd have to get on my phone to flip a switch to turn on the pump before walking to the bathroom. He did find a 4 pack for $15 on Amazon though.

 

[wpns]

My brother in law just installed those wi-fi connecting light switches throughout his house. I never considered using such a gizmo before entering the bathroom, so I'd have to get on my phone to flip a switch to turn on the pump before walking to the bathroom. He did find a 4 pack for $15 on Amazon though.

Shelly devices include inputs so one device can have the switch connected, and the one across the house can turn the pump on.

 

[MicEd69]

They say the moisture is bad on pills, and shouldn't be kept in a wet bathroom.

Yes, I know, but with my layout and mode of use, my bathroom isn't wet even when I take a hot shower. And besides, the childproof pill containers our pills come in has a red moisture seal in the lid.

With a basement where the water heater is, and where there is easy access to the pipes and wiring from below, it isn't really hard to get the outlet the pump is plugged into on a switching device. But a house on a slab or even a crawl space, not so much.

 

[Twowaxhack]

So, if I had your layout with a water heater in my basement, every time I went into the master closet, the motion detector would turn on the circulating pump. See my point now?

Our master bath has an open concept. It shares a 22' wall with the master bedroom and is about 14' wide. The entry door is on the end of the 22' wall, with the shower on the left 14' wall followed by a freestanding whirlpool tub on a 18" elevated pad. This engineer didn't like that as it's pretty impractical, but the home decorator (aka wife) loved the look. The double vanity is along the 22' shared wall and the toilet and bidet is kinda in the corner past the vanity. The towel closet takes up 6' of the 14' wall and is only 18" deep. My wife's fold down drying racks for her sweaters and delicates is opposite the double vanities. We rarely close the bathroom door being retired and it's only us in the house. And when the kids and grandkids come over, we usually only close the bedroom door. With a bathroom that large, hardly ever closing the door, and keeping our medications in their bottles, we don't really have a problem with humidity.

But everytime you want hot water you have to push a button then wait.

That’s 3rd world to me.

How many times a day do you walk into your master closet ? It’s a matter of convenience versus a little waste…….I’d rather have a little waste than pushing a button to get hot water.

We get showers and get ready and leave home most days. No one comes back until it’s time to shower, wash hands after the toilet etc so we would be needing hot water. Oh but wait, let me push the button…..

Nope, not me

During the day we can go into any room in my house and have daylight. No light switches to turn on to see. Very convenient.

But I put my water heater close to the demand so waiting for hot water isn’t an issue. I like two water heaters, one on each side of the house. This gives a backup if one fails also, it’s no emergency.

 

[MicEd69]

But everytime you want hot water you have to push a button then wait.

It becomes habit really quickly, so there is no "wasted" wait time. I push the button and then brush my teeth before I shower, both morning and night. My wife pushes the button and then gather's the dishes, scrapes the throw away food in the trash, and then puts them in the sink. When I've been working on my car, I come in and push the button. Then use waterless soap to get the worst grease off, then by the time I use the orange stuff, I have hot water.

Of course, there are times that I want hot water immediately. So, if I had a motion detector to turn on the pump, I would still have to wait. LOL. What the difference? On those rare instances, I just wait for the hot water to get there like most of the people do, and don't even use the pump.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Yeah, you’d still have to wait with a motion detector. That’s why I wouldn’t do a push button or a motion detector but rather a morning and evening schedule with a timer. But if I had to choose between a push button or a motion detector then it’s the motion all day everrrrrry day.

If my schedule was erratic then I’d run it 24/7.

But you know what ? All of the above sucks for a home…..I locate my heater or heaters close to the demand. With tankless super energy efficient to just split the home into 2-3 zones and use tankless. Almost no wait time, no standby tank loss, multiple heaters as backups.

Winner winner chicken dinner.