Need help after new jacuzzi installed -45 min to fill tub

[Terry800]

I need some ideas. My contractor's plumber and the city permit guy don't seem to know what to do and I don't have the money for questionable guys to run up a bill for no reason.

We had a cast iron tub which worked fine for 30 yrs. Then we got flooded and decided to put in a jacuzzi. https://www.homedepot.com/p/America...irlpool-Bathtub-in-White-2732LC-020/202599075 They also kept a shower head working in the tub but added a diverter valve because we added a hand-held shower on the tub itself, for bathing ease bathing pets etc.

At the same time we converted a tiny closet to a 1/2 bath with a macerating toilet since the upstairs sewer drain came down the closet wall. They took-out the copper plumbing at shower and ran pex from shower to new toilet (about 5-6 ft) up across the ceiling of the closet down to toilet, which worked well. Shower worked well but we NEVER TRIED the jacuzzi bath before we got flooded again just a few days after the house was finished.

Overwhelmed with problems...We didn't know until we were tearing out for the 2nd flood, that the jacuzzi had not been installed correctly. The frame was built too high so jacuzzi was not sitting on cement pad - Inspector had not noticed it. It had about 5 inches of air space between the bottom and the cement pad it was supposed to sit in. Since it had an OSB board fiberglassed to bottom, it all had to be replaced again.

This did give the opportunity to install it another one correctly, but it also meant the shower head and water spicket needed to be lowered. A different ?plumber & contractor, tore all out and re-installed a new jacuzzi on a pad correctly and they also decided to install a full toilet through foundation. Then for some reason, they changed out the diverter again and to my surprise, they removed the new pex and RE-installed copper piping at the shower, .....and shower head telling me if I didn't, it would all leak in the wall and I'd have a mess....even though it was all brand new. I didn't believe them but decided if I went against them....sure enough, it actually MIGHT leak! They insisted on changing out my American Standard matching hardware to their Delta. Mine was good grade ...not cheap.

Now....hardware doesn't match rest of bath. Toilet works great. Shower works great. BUT it take 45 min to fill the 50 gallon jacuzzi above the jets. They diverter valve they put in has like 6 or more stops on it and is very confusing with the hot and cold valve they installed. Before it was simple, now it isn't.

Waiting 45 min for your bathtub to fill up is unacceptable. We will fall asleep, get distracted, or forget and end up with bathroom overflow. A new contractor doesn't know what to do. The city permit inspector doesn't either. They say if they try this or that there is no guarantee it will fix it.

I need some help. Can you guys help me troubleshoot this so I don't just through money out the window? With 2 floods, I've already lost so much. Happy to provide any pics needed. Thanks.

 

[frodo]

what size is the water line feeding the j-cuzy?



looking to find the tub valve gallon per minute setting from factory

50 gallon tub..45 minutes to fill= wrong valve [water saver]

sounds like you have a 1.5 gallon per minute valve OR diverter valve
and you need a 5 gallon per minute

 

[Terry800]

Frodo, I appreciate you help. I'm hoping your thought is right. I have no idea what size the waterline feeding the jacuzzi is. I'm not sure where to look. Is that the same line going to the shower head? If so, that's the line they changed to pex, then changed again to copper. If that is needed, I can go into the access panel tomorrow if I need to, but it was all just painted so do not want to do that unless it is necessary.

I am uploading some pictures. The valve on the left was the one with the old cast-iron tub before the first jacuzzi. It looks like it has a "1/2" marking on the bottom of that nut end. The newer shiny valve on the right was the one put in with the 1st jacuzzi after 1st flood. I'm not sure why they replaced it with still another one that's in the wall now that looks very similar if I remember correctly. It doesn't seem to have any other markings on it other than what you see here. Notice the size difference in the shiny valve. It can actually fit into the female thread of the old valve. Also, you can see the whole tub/shower setup as well.

Does this help? I'll check back tomorrow if you have any other ideas.

Thank you big time!!

 

[Terry800]

Sorry for the large picture files. Wasn't sure how to keep it simple.

 

[frodo]

what is the name of the currant valve in the wall? model?

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

I am gonna bet we need pictures of inside wall. Pex is great if you use expansion type a. Crimp pex is what you might have is constructive and should not be put on a big tub. But also remember water displacement. You only need to get above suction before getting in. Then your tub will be fuller. A 50 gallon usually only needs about 34-40 gallons. Still a long time but wanted to touch that before moving on. Back to crimp. 1/2” pex crimped on a fitting looses 1/2 of its voluume. So the second guy had the right notion but wrong exscuse. Copper leaks too. But back way up. You had an old cast iron heavy tub? What does the rest of plumbing made of? Galvanized pipe? Could have some rust shaking up and getting pushed into valve each time. I call it a “common phantom “. Nobody did anything wrong just the same problem because there was still more rust wanting to move but couldn’t because the first new valve was clogged and not letting full flow. Both of those valves above have 1/4” holes inside valve body. Hook up different but water passage is same. Every 1/2”valve on the market has 1/4” holes inside since the 80s. Check your water voluume flow at a hydrant. Fill 10 buckets. Time yourself. After testing double that time and compare to tub fill time. You double the time because your hydrant allows about 6 gallons per minute max. If your reaching this full capacity then your time should 9 minutes roughly. So tub should take 18-20 minutes with a perfect plumbing system. Meaning for an actual bathing experience should only be about 15 minutes. Tub spouts generally don’t have a restrictive plate just the shower head and hand held independently. So it has to be the existing plumbing having galvanized pipes somewhere in the mix or the copper guy left a little crimp pex in line. But even crimp pex with fittings should run 3-4 gallon per minute. So should still be faster. So we need a water pressure gauge from local hardware store. And run the bucket test. If you don’t have 10 buckets then time 1 bucket and find your per minute flow. Any measured amount size bucket will do. Just as long as you know the capacity of such bucket. Vs time. Then we can tell you how fast your specific tub should fill. Check list. Crimp pex and steel lines , pictures , flow and pressure.

 

[frodo]

Delta has tub faucets from 4 gallons per minute to 18 gallons per minute
the higher GPM are the deck mount roman tub spouts
the lower GPM are the wall mount [like you have] valves

If you want that tub to fill up quickly I suggest a
Delta BT2796-SS
Windemere Roman Tub

at 18 gpm's

I would have never installed that valve on that tub
I would have told you to get a deck mount with hand help sprayer
and a 2nd valve for the shower head. mounted at 4' center from shower floor


The next problem you are going to run into, is ...is the water line to the tub big enough to provide enough volume for what you want.
this subject should have been the first thing addressed.
for a big tub, you want volume of water,
3/4 ID on hot and cold would be perfect
1/2'' ID is pushing it for volume
pex 1/2'' is actually .485 ID copper ID is .545
copper 3/8'' ID is .430

 

[Diehard]

Am I missing something? Isn't the shower and tub spout fed by the same lines and through the same diverter valve?
If that's the case and the shower works fine(with it's flow restriction and all) sounds to me like the problem lies between the valve and the spout.

Also, where is the plumber that installed it? He should make it right.

Hell you can fill the tub faster using the shower.

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

there is 3/4” shower valves for this application when filling tub or running multiple outlets. My opinion laughs when I see someone wasted $1000 in a Roman tub(just to have 1/2” supply normally) valve then anther $150 on 1/2” shower valve. When you could’ve spent $500 on a 3/4 shower valve. But yes a standard shower valve should NOT have been used for such a big tub. Or just put a nice hand held holder above wall and use Roman tub valve for shower. But having both makes me giggle a little each time. Not picking on my friend Frodo! just adding to other options and giving my opinion.

 

[Terry800]

Thank you guys. Yes, the installed diverter valve controls the shower head, tub faucet and separate hand held sprayer. I think my house plumbing is copper....house built in 1978 Houston. But, now that I'm thinking about it...I need to find some pictures just to make sure it isn't galvanized. All visible pipes have been changed to pvc at sinks. I'll report back on this tomorrow.

Where are the plumbers? Well, getting people honest, much less that show up, has been impossible since Hurricane Harvey flooded Houston. Every scam artist across country came here. People claim to be licensed...even with license numbers...only realizing later they weren't...or they didn't pull permit as claimed, ...or they were using someone else's license number because of so much work.

The first general contractor who pulled cast iron out and installed jacuzzi...(5" off cement pad hanging in air) was an excellent GC, but didn't oversee framers building frame and installed jacuzzi too high anyway. I'm not sure plumber saw this when he did the pex for the macerating toilet hookup. Since they pulled a house remodel permit, I thought he had plumbing permit, but they didn't or I would have known about problems earlier. When 2nd flood came, I let him know about wrong installation and asked him to redo correctly at his expense, but no way he would correct his problem. The next GC was bad. Claimed to know everything but was fired after poor quality, and realizing only painting walls 3/4 up wall instead of full walls as quoted. (whole house was flooded 2 feet). We specifically discussed needing a permit for tub replacement in front of his plumber, but when I went to tell permit office GC fired, found out no plumbing permit was obtained. Since this guy did things we didn't approve and lied on several things, I have no interest to try and call him back. BTW, in Texas, GC are not required to be licensed. Only hvac, plumbing, electricians. But many GCs use non-licensed guys they know that do things....which, you think are licensed. It's tough here, especially after disasters when there is more work than qualified people to do.

My current GC's licensed plumber wasn't sure what's wrong, and told me he could try to change the valve, but it might not fix it. That scares me. They were supposed to call some guys for suggestions...but I've been waiting..and calling for 2 weeks, and still keep being told they are checking on it. I'm worried about calling a plumbing company and running up a big bill by a young fairly inexperienced plumber who might not have enough experience to have best guess.

Tomorrow I can open the wall and take pictures of pipes, diverter, etc. I'm almost positive those original pipes before anything changed were all copper. But will try to check. I don't have 10 buckets! But I could fill a 5 gallon and time it tomorrow if that's necessary.

Thanks for helping!

 

[Diehard]

Time the shower while you're at it.

 

[frodo]

open the wall...look for

on tub valve, look for a stamp on the brass
an 'arrow' or shwr. or 'H' or 'C'
in other words look to see if that vavle is upside down

also, look at divertor valve. you should have ''IN'', out,out,out,

if either valve is piped wrong, ......

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

Good catch fro there is a plug on the shower side of the valve in picture. Duh installed backwards.

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

Far as the rant about finding good plumbers. I tell people to find that many good people. Then realize none of those you found like getting pooped on. Few and far between so we exist. ( good plumbers that show up). But even I am guilty of forgetting or just ignoring. And on behalf of the ones that did you that way. I apologize. Please don’t take it personal. We are human and make more mistakes than the average educated human. Hard to find sober help. Even harder to find sober plumber. You can’t plumb from a tablet or cell phone so the young guns don’t want anything to do it. Old guys are slow and frankly stopped caring years ago. Middle aged still chugging but that’s a narrow market of people. Best advise. Tell your kids to piss on college and go to trade school. That generation will benefit greatly with this knowledge. no one wants to collect the money because it smells like poop. But really how many of us get poop on us daily? Those are rare. Not like nursing where that patient poops 3 times a day. Lol and we get paid more. I dunno dude I really just jabboring. I live near Nashville. We had our flood in 2010. So I know what cha mean. Best I can advise is patience. I watched 2 cars get swept away in a 10’ wall of water. Kiss ya kids count ya blessings. We will help where we can but it’s gonna be a minute before everyone in Houston is done. Could’ve been a lot worse than getting ripped by drifting plumbers. May god hold his hand on you as tight as he has me. Good luck.

 

[Terry800]

Good catch fro there is a plug on the shower side of the valve in picture. Duh installed backwards.

Thanks James. That would be great if you see it is installed backwards. Should be easy (hopefully, inexpensive) fix. I had sent another note yesterday, but just got it bounced back tonight. Not sure why. I have another plumber coming tomorrow, so will print these ideas out for him. My goal was to narrow down the options so I didn't run-up a big bill.

 

[Terry800]

open the wall...look for

on tub valve, look for a stamp on the brass
an 'arrow' or shwr. or 'H' or 'C'
in other words look to see if that vavle is upside down

also, look at divertor valve. you should have ''IN'', out,out,out,

if either valve is piped wrong, ......

Thank you Frodo. a new plumber is coming Wednesday so we will open wall up then. I appreciate your thoughts and help. After all the comments, I'm anxious to learn what was wrong. I'll post results after new guy is here and looks at things in wall. Thanks again.

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

Looks like a cap on shwr side

 

[frodo]

COOL,
I think you have a valve installed upside down. I had a er..cough cough, ''plumber'' that installed one upside down
shower to spout, it would give you water, like an old man with a bad prostrate. dribble dribble

it should be plumbed like this

I personally like the use of 2 valves instead of 1 valve and a diverter.
It gives you the option of running the shower head and the hand held at the same time
I also like to install tub spouts in showers at 18'' AFF
bucket fill or foot rinse,

 

[Diehard]

I don't doubt that the valve may be installed upside down.
Is the reference to the picture of the valve with the plug on the SHR side saying, that is the valve that is currently installed?

 

[frodo]

I think [not sure]