Multiple Buildings/ One Well

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You still got to dig it up when the tank goes bad every 20 yrs or so, probably more often when underground.
How deep is the frost line in MI? It is at least 6 feet in MN, someplace it will go 12 or more feet. After the really cold winter with no snow I have heard of contractors finding frost in July.
 
I have found snow under the sand only a foot or less down in late July at Silver Lake Sand Dunes near Muskegon Michigan.
 
Studhauler said:
You still got to dig it up when the tank goes bad every 20 yrs or so, probably more often when underground.
How deep is the frost line in MI? It is at least 6 feet in MN, someplace it will go 12 or more feet. After the really cold winter with no snow I have heard of contractors finding frost in July.
Click to expand...
I think the frost is about 5 foot here.

I have never had a problem with the tanks.

Now, the AW8A we have had to replace because of the insert being galvanized rather than brass.

It just takes a short time to change them.

No digging at all.
 
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Here is what I have figured out so far:

This is going to be a multi-year project and probably push the start back to next year. Right now I have lots of time for planning, but little to do the work. (ie, I sit at my job 12 hrs a day 6 days a week and only have to do work for about half of it.)

I am going to build a greenhouse about 10x14 for the wife with a heat cement floor. One corner of this building will be my "water closet". The water closet will have a back-up heat source.

Well; run 2" poly from the well 125' feet to the greenhouse. I haven't yet investigated what the max gpm I can get from a 3" submersible pump or my well.

All lines will come from the greenhouse to the various buildings.

Home; run 2" poly 100' to my house. When we built the home, it might require 25 gpm max. Right now we have a mobile home.

Rental house; run 2" poly from greenhouse 300' to the rental house. This home has a 15 gpm max.

Detached garage w/ possible mother-in-law apartment, run 1.5" poly 200' will have 15 gpm max. It isn't ever going to have more gpm and is probably limited to less by the existing plumbing.

The future hose barn; run 1.5" poly 200' will have a 8 gpm max.

The plumbing inside the "water closet" will have fittings and piping for 100 gpm, even if the well will not.


I got my GPM using this calculator:
Fixture Count-Gallons or Liters Per Minute Calculator Calculate flow rate from number of fixtures

Cody
 
I think you may be doing overkill on the pipe sizes. No matter how many gallons per minute your calculator says, you will never be using them all at once. The average house uses at most 7 gpm. Maybe a little more at times but usually less most of the time. I would use a gpm rate of ten gpm. That should be a safe number even at peak demand times.
 
I get accused of overkill allot :eek: But your point is well taken. Practical experience is better than a calculator. Especially a calcultor set up by someone to sell you plumbing fittings.

If 10 gpm is a realistic number I could use 1.5" poly on every run and still get the coveted overkill award. If the gpm is higher on occasion, 1.5' will still handle the flow without much drop in pressure.

Cody
 
Below is a diagram of how I would like to plumb the greenhouse/ water closet/ pump house/ what-ever-you-want to-call-it.

Of course it is not to scale. I drew ball valves on there but I have never seen a symbol for a ball valve, so I made up my own. I have two manifolds, similar to a PEX system in a house. They will be made up of 3" x 1.5" copper tee fittings, and have a ball valve attached to each outlet. For perspective, these manifolds will be mounted on the wall and the poly pipe will run strait down through the floor.

Without getting into a commercial water softener, a high flow softener will go 25 gpm. This will be more than sufficient 98% of the time. For those 2% I am wondering if there is some sort of check-valve that will not operate until there is say a 20 psi difference. I put it in the drawing with a "?"

I am interested in comment you may have about the whole system and the differential pressure check-valve.

Link to drawing:
http://flic.kr/p/aakR1N


Thanks,
Cody
 
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In regards to post #27; I am looking for something like an auto bypass valve, except backwards. I need one, that when the pressure is low on one side, it will open up and supply more pressure, and flow capacity to the low side.

Thanks for the help,
 
I tried to view your drawing, but it said I must sign in to view it.

If you get into a softener that will soften at 25 gpm, you are into the commercial unit. A standard 1 cu ft unit has a flow rate of under 5 gpm. That's not to say you can't send more water through it. It just means it will not be 100%.
 
Here is the very crude drawing;

9qv38y.jpg




This is the water softener I fond. It is reasonably priced for a hi flow unit. (I think) Any higher of a flow rate they get really expensive.

Softener 7000 Meter 32K Grain Fleck Controls : Clean Water Store

So can I send more than 25 gpm though this unit? Or is that the max flow but only soft water to 5gpm, then something less?
 
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No such thing as a low flow unit. The head will flow about 24 gpm or so with no tank or resin below it. The softener will soften water at a maximum of 9 gpm. And it will soften more efficiently at 5 to 6 gpm. Anything more than 9gpm, no soft water.

Don't believe all you see out there in the Internet.
 
Lets just say, 75% of the time the flow will not exceed 6 gpm. 85% of the time the flow will not exceed 9 gpm. 98% of the time the flow will not exceed 24 gpm. I am ok with no soft water in those high flow situations. However 2% of the time the flow will be over 24 gpm. For those 2%, is there a device I can put in my system that I am planning to build that will increase the flow? Look for the "?" in the diagram.

The softener will be limiting the flow to 24 gpm. I need a go-around device. That is a new technical term :) The go-around device will let hard-water into my soft-water system.
 
If there were such a device, how would it know when to bypass and when not to???

I seriously doubt you will ever see 24 gpm going through that softener. There is just too much restriction there. The head, the resin, the screen on the bottom (and sometimes the top) of the distributor tube and the tube itself. It's only 3/4" pvc pipe.
 
You could use an electric solenoid valve (sprinkler valve) to bypass the softener. Hook the solenoid valve to a pressure switch. When the pressure gets low from lack of flow through the softener, the solenoid will open and let water bypass the softener. When the pressure increases, the pressure switch shuts the solenoid and water is forced through the softener again.
 
When the pressure increases, the pressure switch shuts the solenoid and water is forced through the softener again.
Click to expand...
Good idea, except as soon as the solenoid valve opens, the pressure increases and the valve closes again... and again... and again.
 
Sounds like a challenge to me. Lets just say, the well pump kick on at 50psi, kicks off at 60 psi. Set the bypass solenoid pressure switch to kick on at 45psi and shut off at 55 psi.

I once had two air compressors with separate pressures switches to run one air tool. The air lines were hook in series. It took a little fine tuning, but I eventually got them to kick on and off when they were suppose to.

I'll let you know how it works. It will be a couple of years. Next summer I will put the underground pipes in. The following year I will build the greenhouse and make all the plumbing connections.

Thanks for all the ideas, so far.
 
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