mcf57
Active Member
Can someone tell me a good reason WHY toilets, sinks, dishwashers and fridges have shutoff valves. Yet showers and tubs don’t and require shutting off main water supply to house. Ridiculous
why is it this way?
- Thread starter mcf57
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My Delta shower valves has integrated stops where I can shut off the water just to this showers, but leave the water on throughout the house. Most builders will install the cheapest items found on the shelves.
It would be nice to have a shut off for the toilet, before the stop/shut off valve, but more valves = higher costs.
It would be nice to have a shut off for the toilet, before the stop/shut off valve, but more valves = higher costs.
mcf57
Active Member
I had a good feeling it had to do with cost, but was hoping it was another reason. Guess not.
Each of my toilets has a shutoff valves. I have cut them off when changing a toilet and the rest of the house still has water. Works great. I just wish my shower and tubs had this too.
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I added shutoff to all my showers / tubs and washing machine.
Probably code violation because there behind an access panel, but I don't care, there helpful if you need to work on it
Probably code violation because there behind an access panel, but I don't care, there helpful if you need to work on it
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Sometimes common sense wins out over code.
I believe years back they took access panels out of building code. I believe, it has been years since i worked on houses. I want to say i asked my inspector buddy and that is what he said. When i started in the house field all tub/shower had access with shut off valves.
Less is more sometimes. I chose Delta tub shower valves without integral stops and I didn’t add any.
How come commercial passenger airplanes don’t have parachutes ? That should bug the crap out of you if you fly…….if you’re concerned about no cut off on your tub valve
How come commercial passenger airplanes don’t have parachutes ? That should bug the crap out of you if you fly…….if you’re concerned about no cut off on your tub valve
But they have life jackets in the event of a water landing!
Planes don't land on the water. They crash there sometimes though!
Everyone would get trampled and die, trying to get the door open, plus no one would have a clue how to put one on. To many moth holes from being stored to long. Plus if they did get the door open they would all get sucked out Into the engine, they would need a special chute door in the very back or bottom of the plane.Less is more sometimes. I chose Delta tub shower valves without integral stops and I didn’t add any.
How come commercial passenger airplanes don’t have parachutes ? That should bug the crap out of you if you fly…….if you’re concerned about no cut off on your tub valve
Oh, chutes built into the seats. " Were sorry, Due to problems that we can not fix, the plane does not seem to be able to make it to the runway, Please remain calm while you are ejected from the plane. Your chute will open automatically within 5 seconds. Please hold on to your small children and other valuables that could act as shrapnel.
We hope you have enjoyed your flight , have a great rest of your day. "
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
I get it, until you find out that you really should have had them.Less is more sometimes. I chose Delta tub shower valves without integral stops and I didn’t add any.
How come commercial passenger airplanes don’t have parachutes ? That should bug the crap out of you if you fly…….if you’re concerned about no cut off on your tub valve
The problem with most builders and contractors is they do NOT live with the designs and implementations. The homeowners do. While it's no problem to tear out a chunk of closet drywall to access the back of a tub or shower valve, then there's the remediation.
A local builder around here builds homes so close together (because the damn town lets him) that if you sneeze, your neighbor says "Bless You". They are vinyl sided because vinyl is cheap (and crap). Well CODE says we need Low-E glass, and it reflects heat--onto your neighbor's home and MELTS the siding! No joke.
Another builder uses a one piece push pull integral toilet stop and hose to save the two pieces of a proper hose and shutoff. It's great until it fails (they are crap) and then the homeowner is left with a massive damage claim. The more complex proper shutoff with a quality connector is really better for the homeowner. Yes it costs about $20 per toilet instead of less than $10. On an $800K house should anyone care?
Another uses a reasonable shutoff valve but a one piece plastic tube to connect to toilet. They crack easily, and also leave a mess for the homeowner. I've changed those out, usually in advance.
I'll take a bit more complex when it provides a better solution even if it costs more.
I’m a homeowner and a plumber and I chose to not have integral stops or stops in my wall.
I didn’t feel the need. I can understand why it sounds like a great idea but in the long run it’s just something else to go bad in the typical home.
I didn’t feel the need. I can understand why it sounds like a great idea but in the long run it’s just something else to go bad in the typical home.
I guess it depends on how long it takes you to get the parts you need and how .ong it takes you to fix it....
Swmbo would not be happy to be without water for 5 or 6 hours or more.
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Exactly how many failures of a shower valves buil in stops do you encounter? My guess is few to none. So “one more thing to go wrong” is no reason not to do it.
Most homeowners are not plumbers. So the convenience factor is well worth the cost…to me at least.
I sure could have used them today replacing the Moen 1222.
Most homeowners are not plumbers. So the convenience factor is well worth the cost…to me at least.
I sure could have used them today replacing the Moen 1222.
A lot. I won’t use integral stops unless I have no other good choice.
When they fail, SOME can have washers or the equivalent break loose and jam up into the faucet. Then I have to get that cleaned out and it’s not always easy.
I find them mostly in apartments and condos. I refuse to use them if I have any other way to isolate that customers apartment or condo.
Most of the time a shower or tub faucet doesn’t run so bad that it’s a problem UNLESS the person ignored a drip for a long while until it just totally craps the bed and starts flowing gallons…….
So I’d rather just turn the main off and make the repair.
The world we live in now builders just throw up the trash so they can collect the cash. The home i live in currently was built in 1949 and is going strong. I wish i was going to be around to see what new houses today will look like in 75 years, shoot even 50 years.
Pride from home builders is gone forever.
Pump 'em out, make a bunch of money, BK that company, and begin a new construction project under a new name. This is what occurs in Southern Kalifornia.
Pump 'em out, make a bunch of money, BK that company, and begin a new construction project under a new name. This is what occurs in Southern Kalifornia.
It’s been gone for long before I was born for the average house. Lumber quality sucks.
One thing that’s change for the better is a homes ability to withstand hurricane force winds along the gulf coast. Codes require steel strapping from the foundation to the rafters.
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Having inspected a bunch of new homes, many of them cookie cutter from firms like Lennar, M-I Homes, and others, I'd say that for the most part the construction is actually pretty good. It's all in the details. Would not take much to take a good home and make it great. Problem is they don't want any changes to their materials or processes because you know nothing and they know everything, and any change whatsoever would make them a "custom home builder" and they are not custom. At least that's the party line here in NC.
Some surprises on new construction recently--the use of radiant barrier roof sheathing. Extremely clean, neat and tidy electrical rough installation. Nice rough plumbing. Extensive use of fiber cement siding. A switch away from "hollow" vinyl windows to more solid PVC windows, and more. Fan braced J-Boxes in every bedroom with appropriate wiring to them.
Some massive fails: adding hose bibbs only on the left and right sides of the home instead of the front and back where it is needed (with 10 feet between homes, a hose on the side is pretty stupid). On a slab home, you are relegated to adding an outside solution. Use of MDF trim in bathrooms. About the dumbest carpentry idea ever. Then with wonderful rough electrical, you have $0.69 Chinese made switches and outlets that simply don't last. No drip edge on the roof gable lines. Inadequate roof ventilation. One or multi-piece fiberglass tub and shower enclosures with aluminum frame glass doors. Large amount of caulking failures inside and outside the home. Water heaters in the attic--no homeowner who ever had a failure or had to change one thinks this is a good idea. It's about the stupidest plumbing idea ever imagined. If there's no room "in the house" for the water heater, the design of the home is wrong. Having seen so many failures and problems with this I'd never own a house with a water heater in the attic.
The list goes on. Structurally, the homes are pretty tight and solid. There's plenty of bad lumber, but a smart framer rejects it because they will have to come back and change it on their time at their cost. But all these little details make it maddening for a homeowner a year or two down the line.
Some surprises on new construction recently--the use of radiant barrier roof sheathing. Extremely clean, neat and tidy electrical rough installation. Nice rough plumbing. Extensive use of fiber cement siding. A switch away from "hollow" vinyl windows to more solid PVC windows, and more. Fan braced J-Boxes in every bedroom with appropriate wiring to them.
Some massive fails: adding hose bibbs only on the left and right sides of the home instead of the front and back where it is needed (with 10 feet between homes, a hose on the side is pretty stupid). On a slab home, you are relegated to adding an outside solution. Use of MDF trim in bathrooms. About the dumbest carpentry idea ever. Then with wonderful rough electrical, you have $0.69 Chinese made switches and outlets that simply don't last. No drip edge on the roof gable lines. Inadequate roof ventilation. One or multi-piece fiberglass tub and shower enclosures with aluminum frame glass doors. Large amount of caulking failures inside and outside the home. Water heaters in the attic--no homeowner who ever had a failure or had to change one thinks this is a good idea. It's about the stupidest plumbing idea ever imagined. If there's no room "in the house" for the water heater, the design of the home is wrong. Having seen so many failures and problems with this I'd never own a house with a water heater in the attic.
The list goes on. Structurally, the homes are pretty tight and solid. There's plenty of bad lumber, but a smart framer rejects it because they will have to come back and change it on their time at their cost. But all these little details make it maddening for a homeowner a year or two down the line.
Water heater are installed in Attic in the south for several reasons.
1. It’s hot up there so it’s energy efficient.
2. Saves floor space downstairs.
3. You can locate the water heater/heaters directly over the demand. No wait for hot water, no circulation.
The expensive things in a house are not the drywall ceilings and walls that “ could possibly “ be damaged like if the pan fails to contain a leaking heater.
The biggest problem I see with heaters in the attic is the failure to provide a large enough and strong enough stairway and floored atttic around the water heater.
1. It’s hot up there so it’s energy efficient.
2. Saves floor space downstairs.
3. You can locate the water heater/heaters directly over the demand. No wait for hot water, no circulation.
The expensive things in a house are not the drywall ceilings and walls that “ could possibly “ be damaged like if the pan fails to contain a leaking heater.
The biggest problem I see with heaters in the attic is the failure to provide a large enough and strong enough stairway and floored atttic around the water heater.
If I wrote the code I would require a 36” pan for the standard 50 gallon heater with a 2” pvc drain piped to the exterior.
I’d require a light and a 120v outlet within 6’ of the heater.
48” walk way to and around the heater.
A large/strong pull down stair or standard framed staircase.
I’d require a light and a 120v outlet within 6’ of the heater.
48” walk way to and around the heater.
A large/strong pull down stair or standard framed staircase.
