Tankless - All Electric

[USMCGRUNT]

Hello all,

I was looking for some pros/cons of going tankless. I’m in the SE quadrant of PA and looked some years ago about going tankless and never pulled the trigger. I see they have come a long ways on the electric side.

I have an upgraded 200 amp panel and (2) pole 30 amps on 10 gauge going to my 50 gallon water heater now. I also have a 100 amp sub panel close I can tap into.

I have a finished basement and hate thinking every 5-8 years if the 50 gallons is going to let go. I only have a couple people in a 2000 sqft home so that shouldn’t be an issue.

Any recommendations on brands as well as pros and cons would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Twowaxhack]

Electric tankless for an entire home is not a good idea.

It’s not worth taking about, just don’t do it.

 

[USMCGRUNT]

Electric tankless for an entire home is not a good idea.

It’s not worth taking about, just don’t do it.

Haha. Fair enough…

My other option is propane. But I don’t know enough about it and the pricing.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Spring for a $1500 stainless steel lifetime warranty heater and install it in a pan with a drain to the sump or floor drain.

Your basic electric tank type heater is the most repair friendly water heater on the market today.

It’s what I use in my home and I promise I can have anything I want and get it cheap. I chose your basic electric.

 

[USMCGRUNT]

Spring for a $1500 stainless steel lifetime warranty heater and install it in a pan with a drain to the sump or floor drain.

Your basic electric tank type heater is the most repair friendly water heater on the market today.

It’s what I use in my home and I promise I can have anything I want and get it cheap. I chose your basic electric.

I appreciate the input from your professional experience. Are there any that you recommend? I see Rheem has a lifetime warranty on their Marathon series heaters. I would rather use Bradford White if possible, but I do not see their lifetime version.

Are the "lifetime" warranties really lifetime? Or is it just a little better tank material and elements? I just need piece of mind I am not going to wake up with 6" of water in my finished basement.

 

[Twowaxhack]

All heaters can leak. It’s best to locate them or protect the area assuming it will at some point leak. Even tankless.

I believe a stainless tank would outlast a Rheem marathon. Even if both have time time warranties. I feel the stainless tank and it’s components are superior

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ariston...CwnU3cvB8Gg8n0qJwLRzSg_X999fcCR2jFQf8bh5694Uk

 

[RonAKA]

The best way to make your water heater last a long time is to regularly check and replace the anode rod. How long one lasts depends on the water, and you will have to find out what your frequency is. I would check it first at about 4-5 years and then decide how often it should be replaced. Where I am the rod seems to last about 8 years. The basic issue is that once the anode rod is consumed or is so scaled up it becomes ineffective, then the corrosion of the tank starts which will result in a leak. The first glass lined basic water heater I had in our current house lasted over 30 years with regular anode rod replacements. You need a 1 1/16" socket and ideally an impact wrench to remove and inspect the rod. Magnesium rods provide more protection but don't last as long. Aluminum is the other alternative. The other maintenance issue is to flush the water heater. How often depends on your water, but based on my experience (not all good) at least once a year...

 

[USMCGRUNT]

Thank you for the replies. I will probably just stick with a standard electric. I will look into the upgraded models like @Twowaxhack has listed or something similar. I guess if it's not broke, don't fix it. I just like the thought of less maintenance and worry free. That being said, none seem to be perfect. And so many different opinions online who likes which brands... Thanks again!

 

[Twowaxhack]

Stainless water heaters don’t have an anode to worry about.

 

[Geofd]

All heaters can leak. It’s best to locate them or protect the area assuming it will at some point leak. Even tankless.

I believe a stainless tank would outlast a Rheem marathon. Even if both have time time warranties. I feel the stainless tank and it’s components are superior

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ariston...CwnU3cvB8Gg8n0qJwLRzSg_X999fcCR2jFQf8bh5694Uk

I have a tankless in my boiler I'm also gonna valve that off , I already have water and electric were it would go just need to pull the trigger

 

[RonAKA]

Thank you for the replies. I will probably just stick with a standard electric. I will look into the upgraded models

Keep in mind that some of the models that have longer warranties are essentially identical to the shorter warranty models but instead have two anode rods instead of one. Anode rods are quite cheap to replace if you do it yourself and there is no need for two rods if you establish how long one lasts and change it before it is consumed.

 

[Geofd]

Thanks for the heads up gonna research heavily before I do anything

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

…I have a tankless in my boiler I'm also gonna valve that off…

Yes old oil burners (boilers) did this. Not very efficient as you fire the full force of the beast pretty much any time you need hot water. When oil was $0.30 a gallon who cared. When it was over $5.00 a gallon last year, my 100 year old dad said “ENOUGH”, and i valved off the tankless and installed a 50 gallon conventional electric tank. He himself did the same thing when gas came to our family home 40 years ago—but he converted the oil burner to gas fired, and put in a gas fired tank water heater.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Up north with electric if I had access to two 30 amp double pole circuits, I’d be running simultaneous 5500w elements in my electric water heaters.

If it was my personal home, I’d run the temp at 140.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Up north with electric if I had access to two 30 amp double pole circuits, I’d be running simultaneous 5500w elements in my electric water heaters.

If it was my personal home, I’d run the temp at 140.

It was challenging enough to wire it up in Dad's old house. No electrician had the foresight (maybe there was some code/permit issue they had to comply with) to do anything but tear out the entire fuse box and replace it with a new service panel, and add the required disconnects outside (Massachusetts code for fire department). That was going to cost over $4K to bring the electrical up to snuff, something Dad didn't think was necessary. I think I spent maybe $150 for parts and wiring.

So with some of your advice, @Twowaxhack I did a bit of rewiring. The 30A circuit, a two pole 240 for the dryer, actually had 60A fuses in it. So in that respect I was golden, even though Dad's dryer circuit was improperly fused for decades. So I left the 60A fuses in place, removed the dryer from that fuse block, and added a 60A sub panel from that fuse block with one 30A breaker for the dryer (as it should have been from the start) and an identical 30A breaker for the water heater. Everything properly wired, a disconnect 75' away from the panel at the water heater, and everything nice and tidy and properly labeled.

After running it for a month, I asked him how much his electric bill went up. He said "I don't know. They sent me a refund." The local electric company is a non-profit owned by the town. When they run a surplus it's returned to the people.

The only issue was my sister forgot that with a tank, you have a limited supply of hot water. Dad had gotten Covid in November and my sister went on a binge washing everything and complained that there was no hot water in the washing machine. I told her to wait an hour...

 

[MicEd69]

Everything properly wired

In your original post, you mentioned that a "(2) pole 30 amps (circuit) on 10 gauge (wire) going to my 50 gallon water heater now". Then you inidcated, "The 30A circuit, a two pole 240 for the dryer, actually had 60A fuses in it."

You didn't indicate the wire size going to the dryer. While you appear to have a working knowledge electrical wiring, you do understand that the fuses and breakers are there to protect the wiring and not the devices, correct? Which means that there was a very dangerous situation having 60-amp fuses on a line to the dryer unless the wiring was #6 individual conductors or #4 Romex.

So just to be sure things are "properly wired", the wiring between the 60-amp fused circuit in the main panel and the 60-amp sub panel you installed must be the aforementioned #6 individual conductors or #4 Romex. If not, the condition you have now is worse than before. The two 30-amp circuits when used at the same time will easily overload the wire between the main panel and the sub panel if it is only 10-gauge copper wire.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

From the sub panel to the water heater, 10-2 gauge with ground NM (Romex) was used. That comes off of a 30A two pole breaker. That's the same wire, essentially, that was used initially 50+ years ago when the home's wiring was from the fuse block to the dryer. So, both the dryer and the water heater are both wired with 10-2 NM Romex. The dryer circuit is old and original, the water heater circuit is new wiring but both come from 30A dual pole breakers. Of course, the receptacle for the dryer is also a 30A rated unit which is typical AFAIK for electric dryers.

What was curious was that the fuse block for the dryer SHOULD have had 30A cartridge fuses in it, but instead had 60A. Thus this was improperly fused for the circuit and wiring prior to me touching it. The old fuse box has TWO fuse blocks in it, one marked for the RANGE (with 60A fuses in it) and one marked for DRYER (which SHOULD have had 30A fuses in it but instead had 60A. Clearly to me, the wiring for the range is correct, and the wiring for the dryer is correct, only the fusing in one of the blocks was wrong. I suggested to my Dad that maybe he changed the cartridge fuses somewhere along the way with the wrong ones, but he adamantly said he never changed any of the cartridge fuses: the range and the dryer circuits never blew a fuse. The rest of the circuits in the home are through regular Edison-base screw in fuses, the only "big" fuses or double/240 are those for the range and dryer circuits.

A very small length of 6 AWG wire connects the 60A fuse block in the main panel to the sub panel.

 

[MicEd69]

A very small length of 6 AWG wire connects the 60A fuse block in the main panel to the sub panel.

That was my original concern, so that sounds good.

However, a 60-amp fused line for an electric stove is pretty high if it is a standard home stove/oven. The wiring for that entire length of that circuit needs to be 6-gauge wire just like what was used for the feeder to your sub panel. Even if it has been that way for 50 years, if it is 8-guage wire, it is a problem and fire hazard. Change the fuses out to 45-amp fuses immediately if it is 8-guage wire.

 

[RS]

After reading all the horror stories on here about tankless I would never install one. If your not able to troubleshoot and maintain it you will spend way more on service than you will save. If you have really good water and are knowledgeable about the heater you might save a buck. We have always gotten 20 years or more from a tank type electric, that's what I will stick with. We have a water softener and flush them out once a year, and have a drip pan under them.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Tankless have their place.

If you need a lot of hot water it’s the best option for most people in my area.

Have a large tub…..tankless is the way to go.

Have 5 daughters……tankless

5 head shower…..tankless.

It’ll give you hot water all day long basically without stopping. You can’t do that with a tank for the same money.