gagecalman
Well-Known Member
Are you on city water or a well?
Problem with new sump pump! (video link in post)
- Thread starter Ragweed
- Start date
Help Support Plumbing Forums:
Diehard
In Remembrance
I know it's somewhat after the fact now but here is my thinking.
If you provide a battery power backup pump it should have the same capacity of the primary sump pump(s). It's not meant to be a back up for peak flows but for power outages. So if you want to size the battery powered pump to handle the recent surges you've just experienced, it may want to be larger. Then you have to calculate how long the battery will last with the max load. Maybe a small generator would want to be considered.
The primary system should be sized for maximum anticipated inflow rate. Sounds like at this point, in view of your recent experience with you backup pump coming on to help handle the flow, you have a fairly good idea of what it takes to handle the maximum flow.
If you're going to use primary pumps with limited float travel, I believe you should be using a larger diameter sump pit to reduce pump cycle time. If you experience a very wide range of inflows it would be advantageous to have 2 primary duty pumps, set up to allow 1 pump to handle the lower inflows/levels and the 2nd to handle the higher inflows/levels.
Just consider this info as food for thought. You must decide where to draw the line between the level of safety and cost.
If you provide a battery power backup pump it should have the same capacity of the primary sump pump(s). It's not meant to be a back up for peak flows but for power outages. So if you want to size the battery powered pump to handle the recent surges you've just experienced, it may want to be larger. Then you have to calculate how long the battery will last with the max load. Maybe a small generator would want to be considered.
The primary system should be sized for maximum anticipated inflow rate. Sounds like at this point, in view of your recent experience with you backup pump coming on to help handle the flow, you have a fairly good idea of what it takes to handle the maximum flow.
If you're going to use primary pumps with limited float travel, I believe you should be using a larger diameter sump pit to reduce pump cycle time. If you experience a very wide range of inflows it would be advantageous to have 2 primary duty pumps, set up to allow 1 pump to handle the lower inflows/levels and the 2nd to handle the higher inflows/levels.
Just consider this info as food for thought. You must decide where to draw the line between the level of safety and cost.
Diehard
In Remembrance
I wonder if gagecalman's question on city water is leading into water powered backup pump? Another option.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2014
- Messages
- 8,578
- Reaction score
- 2,977
according to pump spec, the pump should allow 9'' of water into the basin before turning on
then cutting off at 4'' of water
this means, that your back up, should not come on till the water reaches 9'' from bottom of the ridgid pump
is it doing this?
then cutting off at 4'' of water
this means, that your back up, should not come on till the water reaches 9'' from bottom of the ridgid pump
is it doing this?
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2014
- Messages
- 8,578
- Reaction score
- 2,977
gagecalman
Well-Known Member
I've had excellent results using a HydroCheck HC6000 "Hi-Lo Sump Pump Controller" with a manual pump. No floats to hang up and no mechanical switches to go bad. There are two sensors so you can set the on/off height where it works best for your situation and to reduce short cycling.
I also use a Basepump water powered backup sump pump. https://www.basepump.com/products/basepump/
If you are on city water and not on a well they work great.
If you change things out consider putting in a Zoeller or a Hydromatic pump. On a backup pump buy a good. Don't go
for a cheap priced one. They wont keep up on the water coming in.
for a cheap priced one. They wont keep up on the water coming in.
My old pump was a Zoeller M98 1/2 hp, switch died after 5 years of abuse. Any thoughts on Ion Stormpro pumps, they seem to have good performance at low running amps, which helps with runtime on battery power (via inverter) if needed.
gagecalman
Well-Known Member
That's why I like the controller and not the switch.My old pump was a Zoeller M98 1/2 hp, switch died after 5 years of abuse.
Wow, big water problem. Have you talked to the city. Is there a storm drain out there. Not to familiar with a Stormpro.
Yes we are trying to get a hold of someone in the city. There is a storm drain right in front of our house that our pump sends the water to via a 4" pvc pipe, the outlet is a couple of feet below the sewer grate. I am not sure what happens when that pipe outlet is under water (is sewer water traveling back up the pipe?), seems like the pumps have to work against some of that pressure. Was thinking we may need a new sump drainage pipe to supplement the main one but have no clue where to put all that water.
The back up float switch turns on a few inches above the main float switch, so I think lowering the backup float switch is a good idea to help the primary out before it is clearly under water and the sump pit is full.
Regarding the hydrocheck, if my pump has a built in float switch, do I just zip tie it to the on position? The hydrocheck just cuts power to the pump to control it?
gagecalman
Well-Known Member
The backup isn't there to help the primary pump. It's there in case the primary fails or you loose power. The primary should handle the job.
The HydroCheck HC6000 has two sensors that get attached to the pump pipe. They control when the pump comes on and off. You can put the at any height that you want. This way you can control the cycle.
You have to bypass the float switch. Some pumps have a separate wire for the float. I try to get a pump without any type of float.
These really work well. I don't know why more people don't use them.
Diehard
In Remembrance
Wow...you have a lot to consider when selecting(or checking existing) sump pumps for proper pump performance.
In addition to the max. inflow rate, you(or someone) must calculate the total discharge head, which the pump is subjected to. That includes the elevation head and the discharge head due to pipe size(friction loss).
If you are discharging submersed, it's the top of that puddle which is the elevation head. Which of course can be variable. Which in turn would affect the pumps capacity.
Ideally the pumps discharge should terminate as a free falling flow into atmosphere.
When the catch basin water level is below the top of your 4" pvc pipe, that you pump into, chances are that the pump discharge turns into a gravity flow at the point it connects to the 4", assuming the 4" pvc pipe has at least 1/4" per foot slope.
These are all factors that could enter into the pumps discharge capacity.
In addition to the max. inflow rate, you(or someone) must calculate the total discharge head, which the pump is subjected to. That includes the elevation head and the discharge head due to pipe size(friction loss).
If you are discharging submersed, it's the top of that puddle which is the elevation head. Which of course can be variable. Which in turn would affect the pumps capacity.
Ideally the pumps discharge should terminate as a free falling flow into atmosphere.
When the catch basin water level is below the top of your 4" pvc pipe, that you pump into, chances are that the pump discharge turns into a gravity flow at the point it connects to the 4", assuming the 4" pvc pipe has at least 1/4" per foot slope.
These are all factors that could enter into the pumps discharge capacity.
Last edited:
Is there anyway you could re-route your drain pipe to go into a downspout drain instead of going directly into the storm sewer
that must fill up when raining hard.
that must fill up when raining hard.
Diehard
In Remembrance
Those water powered backup pumps are a GREAT idea. I've used eductor tubes over the years for other reasons but never for that type of application. I suppose its because I was primarily dealing with industrial applications where we always had generator power backup.
gagecalman
Well-Known Member
If you have a power outage that lasts longer than your battery charge you're going to flood.
The water backup will keep going.
I ruled out the water pump because of the low performance, I think it is about 1/4 of the performance of a real primary pump, better than nothing and might be a good addition to this situation, but I still think I need a full performance backup. I have a small generac to plug a primary pump into to keep me going until the power comes on, but I need a battery set up to bridge me over in case I am not home for a while.
