Plumbers with manometers?

[LiQuId]

if you look at the nipple and can only see thread then it is a prohibited nipple ( close nipple ), if it has some of the original pipe wall between the threads ( space nipple ) then it is allowed.

 

[havasu]

If I was to place the valve on the vertical rather than the horizontal area, it would allow the plumbing to be closer to the wall, but it would be after the collection (dropped) pipe. Would this be acceptable, provided I replace the closed nipple?

 

[LiQuId]

yes it would be fine, though you would need to turn the gas off at the meter then to empty the drip pocket ( obviouslly ) but these are seldom if ever cleaned out anyways as the amount of debris will obviouslly not fill the entire drip leg.

the reason that close nipples are prohibited is because when you thread sched 40 pipe you leave a very thin amount of pipe wall in tact and code worrys about the possablility of the nipple shearing without additional support of even a small amount of original wall thickness on the exposed areas, also any exposed piping is required by code to be painted. we use trem clad paint as its designed to inhibit rusting of the pipes, you likely have seen old gas meters withg rusted to hell black iron connectiuons downstream of the meter, this is because it is commonly forgotten or not done by the gasfitter, though it SHOULD always be done.

 

[havasu]

When I finally complete the job, I will be painting it to make it purty. Once again, I appreciate the help.

 

[CHRISM]

The Gas Company just arrived to my house. He laughed when I asked if he carried a manometer (which he did have with him), because he said they are now ancient. He said there are new crystal types available, but they are really expensive.

Getting back to the topic, he measured my gas and found 8.9 psi while flowing gas, and 9.5 PSI at standing pressure...all within normal limits. I explained the clogged air intake and he also believes this is what caused the fault because with natural gas being a constant pressure, which then mixes with a fresh air source, equals good combustion in the air/gas chamber. If you reduce the flow of air, the concentrate of gas increases, causing the gas pressure sensor to activate.

Does this sound plausible to the experts taking time to help me?

"Hello havasu",


I will not go into any further detail about Your Combustion Problem because You have already had some good Advice / Information from LiQuId - but just to comment on this point:


`The Gas Company just arrived to my house. He laughed when I asked if he carried a manometer (which he did have with him), because he said they are now ancient. He said there are new crystal types available, but they are really expensive`.


`Manometers are now Ancient` - ! !


It looks like here is another `Slight Difference` in attitudes regarding Gas Utilisation / Gas Pressure Measurement between the U.S. and the U.K.


Here in the U.K. the Professionals within the Gas Industry believe that there is NOTHING `Better` than the Manometer for Measuring Gas Pressures and Testing for Gas `Tightness` [No Leaks] on Gas Pipework.


Unless We are dealing with `Minute` tolerances of Gas Pressure - which would be beyond any Domestic Gas Appliance and MOST Light Commercial / Light Industrial Gas Appliances for Heating & Hot Water - there is NO Instrument that is better for Measuring Gas Pressures - Appliance Inlet Gas Pressure or Burner Pressure.


I / We have Combustion Performance Analysis Instruments / Multifunction Gas Measurement Instruments that Cost between $1100.00 [£700.00 approx.] and $1900.00 [£1200.00 approx.] - these have multiple facilities including the Measuring of Gas `Tightness` on Gas Pipework and Appliances and Measuring Gas Inlet and Burner Pressures on Gas Appliances - I / We would NOT even think about utilising any of these Instruments If We had a Manometer to hand - Which would ALWAYS be the case.


I am ONLY mentioning that I / We possess these `Combustion Performance Analysers` / Multifunction Gas Measurement Instruments to show that DESPITE owning perhaps $25,000 [£15,600 approx.] worth of these Instruments I / We would NEVER use one of them INSTEAD OF a Manometer.


When I / We are using a Combustion Performance Analyser the FIRST thing that We would do is to Measure the Gas Flow to the Gas Appliance - the Gas Inlet Pressure to the Appliance and the Burner Pressure - PRIOR to taking any Combustion Analysis Measurements - these Pressures are taken using a Manometer.


I would state Categorically that there is NO INSTRUMENT in existence that is `Better` for Checking & Setting Gas Pressures on Domestic / Light Commercial / Light Industrial Gas Appliances - Although of course the facility to Measure these Pressures CAN be utilised on the Multifunctional Gas Measurement Instruments that I have mentioned here.


Far from being `Ancient` - Manometers are a VITAL Measuring Tool for Gas Engineers / Gas Installers - Plumbers of course also use them.



I hope that this Post has NOT been `Too Boring` for the People who `Hate` My `Wall of Text` Posts.


Regards,


Chris

 

[havasu]

Thanks for the comments Chrism! I honestly believe when I first called the company, I think he was just trying to "blow me off" by demanding the test with the manometer.

When I followed through with the requested test, he might have felt I wasn't going to be persuaded to just ignore the problem. I may really be off in my thinking because everyone I spoke to at the manufacturer was really nice and I have nothing but respect for those folks. (Maybe letting them know I was going to post the results in this forum may have expedited my order?)

But the bottom line is that the sounds I've been hearing recently when the T/W/H fired up is no longer there, and I honestly believe the problem has been corrected.

 

[LiQuId]

Awesome sauce Havasu, a job well done then. glad to help.

 

[havasu]

I changed the close nipple, changed the shut off valve, primed and then painted the gas line. NOW, is this done correctly?

First picture is the before, and the second picture is the after.

 

[plumbingjim17]

Wow looks great!

Ben's Plumbing
100 E Center St, Provo, UT 84604
(801) 850-9087 ‎
benjaminfranklinplumbing.com

 

[LiQuId]

yes... this is a Sexy install the added paint also makes it look really pro, I am amazed how few "gasfitters" dont do this very simple step.
Good job man. I assume you tested all the joints with leak detector ( or soapy water ).. looks great

 

[minuteplumbers]

I haven`t read the whole thread butg I couldn`t help but notice that you were having troubles with a `Navian` Navian makes a very nice quality product but we have had several issues with the `gas pressure`error. First off Navian wants 3/4" gas line right to the unit they also ask that there be at least 4' (I could be wrong on that number but it was at least three feet) of gas piping between the regulator and the unit itself. Also you must use the "maxitrol" regulator with the "blue" cap. (as per Navian tech) or there was one other brand I believe it was "flotech" I also could be wrong with that name as it was not available from our suppliers.

Navian claims that because of its variable flow rates the internal gas valves fluctuate up and down. this can cause some regulators to "flutter" Which will cause gas error codes. After installing a 3/4" regulator and installing 3/4" Iron pipe gas line to the unit. (we installed approx 6') not one single problem.

 

[havasu]

This is good information! I'm just concerned because as far as I know, there is an internal regulator, so are you suggesting adding a regulator parallel to another regulator? If a regulator needed to be added, I'm in a world of poop because this 3/4" iron pipe was branched off my main incoming gas line, so I would need to do some serious cutting and modifying to the drywall to allow the regulator to be visible, per code.

 

[minuteplumbers]

Navian wants a 3/4" regulator in the gas line before it reaches the unit with at least 4' of 3/4" gas line after the regulator to the Navian Unit. I would only assume that this piping acts as a buffer between the regulators when the Navian First fires up. When we called the Navian Tech line it was extremely informative and they were very helpful. I did find it funny though how touchy they were compaired to other products such as Rennai etc. Anyways Good luck and if you have any more issues I do recommend speaking with there Technical support. The Gas Fitter I was working with has installed a number of instant hot water units and was quite stumped when we first installed the Unit. Wasn't exactly plug and play! Goodluck