New member missing P-trap

[SlopeSurfer]

This is my first posting to this forum. I hope I'm doing this correctly.

I used my basement shower for the first time. It quickly started filling with water. When I popped the drain cover, I was disappointed to find that there was no P-trap. The only reason there were no sewer fumes is that the drain was clogged. The overview image shows the whole set up. From the dome image, you can see that the normal entrance to the p-trap has been capped. The down-pipe image gives a glimpse of the pipe going down. I assume that it was meant to connect to the center pipe and form a trap. But, of course, the cap prevents that.

I have cleared the drain and now have the associated sewer gas smell (capped with a rag for now).

I have run my bore scope down the down pipe, it bottoms out. Then instead of continuing toward the center pipe, it takes a turn off to the right. I am unable to follow it after that. Maybe it turns back again and heads toward the capped center pipe.

I’ve tapped on the cap/dome. It is solid (not just a stuck racket ball).

I assume I’m going to:

• Install a clean-out cap
• Remove the riser (so there will be no standing water).
• Remove the dome
• Create a connection between the center pipe, beyond the dome, and the down pipe that starts at the base of the cleanout/drain.

Since I will still have an easily accessible cleanout, it would seem that the trap doesn’t have to be all that smooth (it can be bypassed by using the cleanout).

So, my main question is, do I have this right? But, I’m also interested in any speculation about how this got the way it is. And most important, is there any reason I should not remove that dome?

I appreciate your help and can get videos to you if that would help.

 

[Geofd]

So I've never seen a shower drain with a built in clean out,I don't know what I'm looking at on the 2nd picture on the right, is that water on the bottom right were you scope is????

 

[SlopeSurfer]

So I've never seen a shower drain with a built in clean out,I don't know what I'm looking at on the 2nd picture on the right, is that water on the bottom right were you scope is????

Geofd, thank-you for getting back to me.

I'm not sure what you mean by second on the right. The middle image, labeled Dome, is just a closer look at the bottom of the vertical pipe in the center. At the bottom is what I'm referring to as the dome, which appears to be solidly in place and made of metal. If I put water in the center pipe, it just sits there, blocked by the dome. The image on the far right, labeled DownPipe, shows the entrance to the cleanout and you get a glimpse of the beginning of the pipe that goes straight down around 8 inches. The bore scope is probably a couple of inches down that pipe. I just placed it there to put some light on it. When I clear that of water, it stays clear of water. That's the pipe that then goes off to a side and I can no longer follow it.

Yes, seems rare to have a built in clean out. But, seems like a nice feature as long as there is a P-trap.

If this reply does not clear things up, I can make a video. Moving from one location to another might make it all easier to understand.

 

[SlopeSurfer]

I went ahead and made a short video that I hope makes the situation clear. It started out at 155 MB and this server wouldn't take it. After two iterations, I have this 23MB video. Does anyone know what the limiting size is for uploading video? It looks OK on my computer. I tried using the Preview to see how it would look to other members. But, I did not see how to play it.

 

[havasu]

We've set the limits to 10MB, but I can see your video. Maybe admins have higher viewing limits? Can someone please click on the image for me to see if the video pops up for them as well?

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

We've set the limits to 10MB, but I can see your video. Maybe admins have higher viewing limits? Can someone please click on the image for me to see if the video pops up for them as well?

I can see it.

 

[MicEd69]

I think you may have some version of a trap with cleanout like this.


And the "dome" is likely a test plug that is meant to be broken out after pressure testing the sewer lines. It looks like the threads for the cleanout plug are in pretty rough shape, and I assume that there was not a plug screwed into that cleanout. Before breaking up concrete, you may want to try to break out that "dome" and see what's below it. If it is a P-trap like I think, then you may be able to chase the threads of the cleanout, screw a plug in it, and be able to live with what you have.

 

[Geofd]

I think you may have some version of a trap with cleanout like this.
View attachment 47304

And the "dome" is likely a test plug that is meant to be broken out after pressure testing the sewer lines. It looks like the threads for the cleanout plug are in pretty rough shape, and I assume that there was not a plug screwed into that cleanout. Before breaking up concrete, you may want to try to break out that "dome" and see what's below it. If it is a P-trap like I think, then you may be able to chase the threads of the cleanout, screw a plug in it, and be able to live with what you have.

Nice find that looks more feasible!!!!!!

 

[MicEd69]

In looking at the video more closely, that piece that sticks up above the bottom of the drain cup has four cutouts along the top which could be indications that is can be unscrewed. Could that possibly be a recessed plug of some sort that can be unscrewed from the drain cut? I would use a wire brush to check for threads on that "riser", and/or use some PB Blaster to see if that will unscrew. As you said, that "riser" will need to be cut out for the drain to function without leaving a ring of water around it.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Heres what you have…..the small hole with threads is a cleanout to bypass the trap.

Can’t say what the “ dome “ piece is blocking the trap. Maybe it was a test plug of some type that was never removed or maybe someone jammed a homemade plug into the trap inlet because the trap is defective and doesn’t hold water.

Take a bigger pic showing the entire floor area.

 

[Geofd]

Heres what you have…..the small hole with threads is a cleanout to bypass the trap.
View attachment 47317View attachment 47317
Can’t say what the “ dome “ piece is blocking the trap. Maybe it was a test plug of some type that was never removed or maybe someone jammed a homemade plug into the trap inlet because the trap is defective and doesn’t hold water.

Take a bigger pic showing the entire floor area.

Much easier to snake

 

[SlopeSurfer]

I thank everyone for their replies. Per Geofd's suggestion, I have added a view that shows more of the shower floor. As you can see, there is nothing more to the actual drain.

MicEd69 points out how rough the threads look for the cleanout. And yes, there was no cap when I opened up the drain. Only the drain being so clogged kept the fumes away. I plan to clean the threads up as best I can and then, if I can't get a threaded cap to fit, I assume there are expanding rubber plugs that will do the job. His suggestion that the dome may have been for original testing purposes at least gives some rationale for it existence. It's still pretty hard to get my head around someone getting this all set up and then leaving the dome in place and no plug on the cleanout.

I think what Twowaxhack showed is really close to what I'm seeing. The only thing is that instead of the U shape going directly from the drain (at the cleanout) to the center, it veers off to the side. and then goes beyond what I can see with my bore scope. Like I said in the video, maybe it works its way back and makes the connection.

I think we are all in agreement that the next step is to remove the riser. Maybe that will give me a little better view and shed some light on the dome that is blocking what should be the trap. If not, I think that we are all in agreement to then go after the dome, drilling into it and tearing it up if necessary. If I get any sense that it would unscrew. I was thinking about tapping it with a left hand threaded bolt, to give me something to get a hold of.

I plan to take a shot at the riser tomorrow and update this thread.

 

[Aggie83]

I went ahead and made a short video that I hope makes the situation clear. It started out at 155 MB and this server wouldn't take it. After two iterations, I have this 23MB video. Does anyone know what the limiting size is for uploading video? It looks OK on my computer. I tried using the Preview to see how it would look to other members. But, I did not see how to play it.

post on youtube and share the link

 

[SlopeSurfer]

First, thank-you Aggie83 for your suggestion about using a YouTube link. That should allow significant videos without overwhelming the plumbingforums server.

So, it was difficult to get ahold of the riser. It was too deep for me to get a pipe wrench on it. I wound up using a SawsAll to cut a trough out of one side and crushing it. With that gone, I could get a little better view of the dome. Turns out it was made of fairly thin copper. So, I just chiseled holes in it and crushed it to the point where I could pull it out. As hoped, the pipe continued down past where the dome had been. It took some excavating, but, as you can see from the attached, my little snake popped back up where hoped. I did a little more clearing and then added water until it came back up and into the drain exit. It has been a few hours and the level in the trap has remained the same. I'll check it out again in the morning.

Assuming that the trap is still full, I'm going to spend a little time with the snake and my wet vac, cleaning out as much of the debris as possible, being particularly careful not to send it down the exit pipe. I've ordered up an expanding neoprene plug that should take care of the cleanout hole.

So, bottom line, I think we can call this a success. Thank-you again everyone for all your help. Of the various mysteries concerning how this setup got created in the first place, to me the largest is, why were there threads in the bowl that the riser could screw into? I just can't think of any case where having a pipe extend up past the bottom of the bowl would be helpful. However, either the bowl came that way, which means there must be a reason, or whoever did this, threaded the bowl to put in something that could only be a problem. The phrase, "Let it go." Comes to mind.

 

[havasu]

Great job!
Also, thank you for supporting this great forum!