Leak under toilet into crawl (Video)

[RLee]

Hello,

Hope you are all doing well. I have a leak under the toilet when you flush it and goes into the crawl. While I'm waiting to hear back from a plumber, I was hoping to get some opinions from y'all.

Maybe it needs a new wax ring or flange replaced? The right bolt is a bit loose, so I'm going to tighten it and go back under the house in the morning and check again. Any opinions, advice, or general comments are greatly appreciated and welcomed.

Thank you

 

[MicEd69]

Yep, you will need to pull the toilet to see if it is just the wax ring or if the flange is also bad. If the bolt has been loose for some time, the rocking of the toilet could have damaged the wax ring. But the reason of the bolt being loose could mean the flange is also bad. You may need some subfloor repair as well.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Hello,

Hope you are all doing well. I have a leak under the toilet when you flush it and goes into the crawl. While I'm waiting to hear back from a plumber, I was hoping to get some opinions from y'all.

Maybe it needs a new wax ring or flange replaced? The right bolt is a bit loose, so I'm going to tighten it and go back under the house in the morning and check again. Any opinions, advice, or general comments are greatly appreciated and welcomed.

Thank you

You’re exactly correct and once the toilet gets pulled you’ll know more. Tightening the bolt won’t help you at this point.

Good luck

 

[Twowaxhack]

As much as it’s leaking, is it possible your toilet isn’t flushing well ? Has it been clogging or rising to the top lately ?

 

[RLee]

Sorry for late response, been working all day.

Yep, you will need to pull the toilet to see if it is just the wax ring or if the flange is also bad. If the bolt has been loose for some time, the rocking of the toilet could have damaged the wax ring. But the reason of the bolt being loose could mean the flange is also bad. You may need some subfloor repair as well.

I incorrectly stated the bolt was loose, turns out it was just the nut.

Yes, I'm worried about the subfloor. Just had it replaced a couple of years ago due to it rotting out from a leak. Had the flange, elbow, toilet, floor replaced. Wasn't leaking after initially putting the new toilet in, nor was it last year when I went under the house and checked. I typically check a couple times a year.

As much as it’s leaking, is it possible your toilet isn’t flushing well ? Has it been clogging or rising to the top lately ?

Toilet flushes fine, wasn't rising to the top. Went under to check the toilet as noticed a little water in back behind the toilet at base.

Tomorrow or Monday I'm going to pull the toilet and try replacing the wax ring. Just seems like a big leak if it's just a bad ring.

Had a guy come out and give a quote to pull toilet, replace elbow and flange, but it was very high. He didn't seem to keen on messing with it and I understand.

 

[Twowaxhack]

When is the last time you used a plunger on that toilet ? Could’ve anyone else have used a plunger ?

 

[RLee]

When is the last time you used a plunger on that toilet ? Could’ve anyone else have used a plunger ?

A few months back. Someone clogged it up. Tried plunging it, had to use a toilet auger to break up the clog. Wound up flushing fine afterwards, and then didn't clog again after that.

 

[MicEd69]

A few months back. Someone clogged it up. Tried plunging it, had to use a toilet auger to break up the clog. Wound up flushing fine afterwards, and then didn't clog again after that.

That very well could have been when the wax seal was damaged. Oops!

 

[RLee]

That very well could have been when the wax seal was damaged. Oops!

I pulled the toilet earlier, removed the old wax ring. Cleaned it up real good. Removed any old wax and silicone caulk from tile and bottom of toilet. Put down a new wax ring. Carefully put toilet back on, made sure bolts lined up, and hand tightened it. Toilet wasn't moving or shifting. Went under the house and had someone flush it a few times. Even had them sit on it and flush. No major leak, but there is a couple drips.

Not sure if it was residual, but this likely means I'll need to replace the flange?

Probably have to remove it from the boot and replace that entire elbow piece? I have someone coming out this week hopefully to take a look.

I included another video and some pictures. Thanks again for all the answers and advice. I really appreciate it.

 

[RLee]

Looking at the inside, I wonder if the adhesive from the inner elbow and connecting to the flange wasn't sealed enough and drips through. I wonder if I could get by sealing it some more from the outside. Seems kind of like a gimmick, but if I can get by without having to replace the flange...I'll have to ask the plumber if he comes by. What are your thoughts?

Edit.

After thinking about it, I'm probably better off just replacing the fitting and flange to keep it secure and prevent from further leaking...

 

[MicEd69]

The first picture clearly shows that the wax ring was not centered and was leaking. The second picture shows that the flange is not secured to the floor. And normally, the toilet bolts are inserted in the slotted holes for easy toilet setting.

The plastic horn in the wax ring that was there and what you installed can also cause issues, especially if a toilet auger is used on the toilet.

I can't really see if the glue joint has a problem from a picture, but I'm thinking your wax ring was the original problem. And the way the toilet bolts are installed in the flange and that the flange is not secured to the floor, that could also be a contributing factor then and now. PVC isn't super rigid so the tightness of the bolts can distort the flange and cause issues.

 

[RLee]

The first picture clearly shows that the wax ring was not centered and was leaking. The second picture shows that the flange is not secured to the floor. And normally, the toilet bolts are inserted in the slotted holes for easy toilet setting.

The plastic horn in the wax ring that was there and what you installed can also cause issues, especially if a toilet auger is used on the toilet.

I can't really see if the glue joint has a problem from a picture, but I'm thinking your wax ring was the original problem. And the way the toilet bolts are installed in the flange and that the flange is not secured to the floor, that could also be a contributing factor then and now. PVC isn't super rigid so the tightness of the bolts can distort the flange and cause issues.

Thanks.

I debated on stacking two standard rings but used the one with the insert as that was the one used previously and to help center it. Someone also said the same thing about it could cause issues making the hole more narrow..

Would you recommend installing new bolts? I hand tightened it as I don't want to crack the toilet. Do you have any recommendations?

 

[havasu]

Is the toilet floating above the floor when seated on the wax ring? You should be able to sit on it, and it should squish the wax down a bit. Then apply the bolts snug.

 

[RLee]

Is the toilet floating above the floor when seated on the wax ring? You should be able to sit on it, and it should squish the wax down a bit. Then apply the bolts snug.

When I get to the house, I'll take some pics of the bottom of the toilet and the floor. It's pretty secure, it's not moving or shifting and I sat on it and made sure the bolts were nice and snug.

 

[MicEd69]

After looking at the pictures again, is the flange even glued to the PVC pipe?

It appears that the flange has a ring of extruded silicone caulk around the inside of the joint between the pipe and the flange. If the person installed the flange by using silicone caulk to "glue" it to the floor and the pipe, that is totally wrong and could be a contributing factor as well. The toilet flange needs to be glued to the pipe with PVC cement. And again, it needs to be screwed to the subfloor. Use stainless steel countersunk screws in each of the flange holes.

 

[RLee]

After looking at the pictures again, is the flange even glued to the PVC pipe?

It appears that the flange has a ring of extruded silicone caulk around the inside of the joint between the pipe and the flange. If the person installed the flange by using silicone caulk to "glue" it to the floor and the pipe, that is totally wrong and could be a contributing factor as well. The toilet flange needs to be glued to the pipe with PVC cement. And again, it needs to be screwed to the subfloor. Use stainless steel countersunk screws in each of the flange holes.

Plumber came out, basically said the same things. Flange needs to be bolted to subfloor, in extreme cases they used wood to hold it up if all else fails. He said have to remove and replace top piece and make sure it's glued, and secured. Mentioned they sometimes use plumbers putty and cement. He said subfloor will need repair if it rots out. Basically, everything you all have been saying he already confirmed.

He said keep an eye on it and see if it dries out.

I guess it's a matter of me taking out the old one and putting a new one in as it's just a matter of time if flange is not secure. Rocking and shifting toilet will just cause seal to fail.

Wonder if there is something I can do for a temporary fix to better seal it or until more extensive work can be done...

 

[havasu]

Unless that wood is dry, you can't repair it properly.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Take the toilet back up, clean the flange throughly with alcohol, grab a toilet flange extender and a tube of 100% silicone.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1...VN21vBB1wwQT0EAQYAiABEgJhgvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Buy some new closet bolts that have 4 washers and 4 nuts. Two of these are so you can secure your bolts to the flange.

Install the new bolts into the slots of your old flange. Lay down a couple 1/4” beads of silicone to your old flange.

Drop the flange extender onto the old flange allowing your silicone to squeeze out. Wear gloves, clean up excess silicone.

Use about 6-8 corrosion resistant screws through the flange extender, through the old flange and into the plywood below. Hopefully it’ll be good enough to hold the screws and not rotten.

Now install a washer onto each bolt and a nut and secure the bolts to the flange.

Everything should be anchored at this point.

Use a couple wax seals Without the horn. Mold the two into one and mold it to the flange.

Dry the underneath of the toilet and clean it thoroughly.

In one motion, set the toilet evenly and let the base settle to the floor by pushing down letting the toilets weight do most of the work.

It’s a one time shot, you don’t get a second chance.

Once the base of the toilet is touching the floor install your bolt hardware and cap covers and tighten snug.

I use bolt cutters to cut my bolts off. Add a touch of silicone to the top of the cut bolts and nut to secure it in place for the duration. Install caps.

Caulk around toilet.

 

[Twowaxhack]

That’ll get you by until you can get a pro in there. Maybe get you by forever.

If your screw holes to secure the flange to the plywood below don’t match up between the two don’t worry. Just use the screw to make the hole where it needs to be.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Here’s what you’re trying to achieve. The general idea. There’s concrete under that hardwood so I secured to the concrete, you’ll use screws.