Home Renovation - Complete Replumb Seeking Advice

[JacksonPark]

I've browsed the forum for a bit, this is my first post. I greatly appreciate any help. I'm located in Pittsburgh PA.

I'm in the middle of doing a complete home renovation - that wasn't the original intent, but that is what we decided after pulling down a few walls and seeing the mess that was there. The plumbing was all cast iron. There were multiple cracks where the main stack was leaking and oozing.

We had 2 plumbers give us quotes - one was highly recommended company, licensed and all reviews were positive. The other was recommendation from a friend, the guy just started out on his own (worked for a big firm before) and came with a good review from the friend. Both estimates came in around $9k - way over budget for us, that is just the reality.

So, I'm tackling this project myself and hoping that some of the more experienced here can help me do it right. I have spent a lot of time reading, trying to understand the code, but there seems to be just as much bad information as there is good. That said, I have attached some pictures of my "rough in" - nothing is cemented yet.

The closet (3" pipe) is 4' on center from the main vertical stack. There is 5', measured on center following the pipe.

The Y will be used for the shower drain (2" pipe). The blue tape and X shows the location of the shower drain.

The second floor has taped in fittings in the photo for the sink drain and the vent.

Questions:
- Is there a way to vent the closet? Being less than 5' to the main, is this acceptable under code without a vent? The drop is more than the diameter of the pipe when it gets to the Y.
- What would be the best method to vent the shower - that run is very short.
- For the sink vent connecting into the main stack, can the sanitary t be used for the vent? Should it also be used for the drain or should I use y's for both? Is it oriented in the correct direction?
- I have a test tee (not pictured) used at the base of the stack in the basement, 18" above the slab. I used a test t rather than a clean out because of space constraints. The code references I saw, seemed to indicate this is acceptable, is that correct?

I know there is a lot - I greatly appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Colin

 

[frodo]

I help out on upc code jobs, one of the ipc code plumbers will be along

 

[KULTULZ]

frodo,

You suggest two 45's in place of the present 90 shown on the photo. Will this allow the curvature to flow better with less change of clogging? Use two 45's with a short connector piece or one 45 and a street 45?

Would a long sweep 90 serve the same purpose?

 

[frodo]

st and 45 is he same as a long sweep,

 

[KULTULZ]

st and 45 is he same as a long sweep,

...scribble...scribble...

THANX!

 

[JacksonPark]

Thanks for the feedback.

For the closet line, I'll put a vent in the second joist - is it ok if it comes off slightly more than horizontal? I don't have a lot of room between the pipe and the subfloor.

The fall of the 3" is a little more than 1/4" per foot. Does there need to be a clean out in here anywhere or does the closet count as access because the pipes will be hidden in the wall?

I'll swap out the sweep 90 to two 45's as suggested.

For the second floor - there is another floor above it then the roof. We were thinking about possibly putting just a sink up there (it will be a guest room) but definitely not more than that.

With the toilet vent coming up through the floor, if it rises up, it will intersect where the sink plumbing will be; is this ok? or should I try and route it around the sink drain?

I will work on this a bit Thursday night and over the weekend, I'll post some revised photos.

Thanks,
Colin

 

[frodo]

toilet vent




lav on upper floor [future]


toliet vent offset

 

[JacksonPark]

Attached are updated pictures.

I changed the design a bit to wet vent the toilet. If the vent came up for the toilet and the sink drain crossed over it, I figured it would end up draining that path anyways.

I couldn't do a 45 in place of the 90 on the closet drain. I did manage to get a 60 in there.

Is the wye acceptable for the sink above?

Thanks,

 

[frodo]

the drain for upstairs must be below the vent as per the drawing i provided

if the arm to the lav is longer than 36'' it is illegal

lav arm fall is lacking

 

[JacksonPark]

So, we decided to eliminate the sink in the attic... Too much work for the rest of the room, to also try and put a sink and fixture up there... That should resolve the drain/vent situation.

The lav fall is between 1/4" and 3/8" on the slope per foot gauge I have. That should be good, correct?

Also, The center to center distance from the clean out to the drain is 51". It is 2" - is 36" still the max? How would I compensate to make it shorter?

 

[frodo]

So, we decided to eliminate the sink in the attic... Too much work for the rest of the room, to also try and put a sink and fixture up there... That should resolve the drain/vent situation.

The lav fall is between 1/4" and 3/8" on the slope per foot gauge I have. That should be good, correct?

Also, The center to center distance from the clean out to the drain is 51". It is 2'' - is 36" still the max? How would I compensate to make it shorter?

any fall over 1/4'' is to much fall.

to much fall is just as bad as not enough fall. the water will run faster than the junk it is carrying with it.
it will leave the junk behind.
what a do, i mark my holes to drill, raise the center mark on each stud by 1/4''
when i drill, i make sure the worm of the bit is on the mark


the fix

 

[stevemachine]

Where i am 2" is good for 8 ft before it ties into the vent 1 1/2 is good for 6 ft. Depends on where you live

 

[frodo]

Where i am 2" is good for 8 ft before it ties into the vent 1 1/2 is good for 6 ft. Depends on where you live

a lav is 1 1/4'' tail piece.
you are not allowed a trap arm more than 1 size larger than the table 7-3

which is a 1 1/4 trap for a single lav
1 1/2 is max size.

this is upc, code

ver batum is
1003.3
the size of a trap for a given fixture shall be sufficient to drain the fixture
rapidly, but in no case less than nor more than 1 pipe size larger than given in table 7-3. the trap shall be the same size as the trap arm to which it is connected

 

[frodo]

Where i am 2" is good for 8 ft before it ties into the vent 1 1/2 is good for 6 ft. Depends on where you live

take a close look at his picture, he says its 2'' but i see 1 1/2 on that lav arm

what do you see?

 

[stevemachine]

Actually i do agree looks like 1 1/2. Where i am we dont even use 1 1/4 except for in commercial. Ive yet to see 1 1/4 plastic pipe installed. Lavs are always 1 1/2 even with 1 1/4 tailpiece. In our code i have not seen a clause like that, but it logically makes sense. Still though his trap arm can be 6 ft or 5 ft if its 1 1/4

 

[frodo]

Actually i do agree looks like 1 1/2. Where i am we dont even use 1 1/4 except for in commercial. Ive yet to see 1 1/4 plastic pipe installed. Lavs are always 1 1/2 even with 1 1/4 tailpiece. In our code i have not seen a clause like that, but it logically makes sense. Still though his trap arm can be 6 ft or 5 ft if its 1 1/4

we dont use 1 1/4 either, even in commercial we only use 1 1/2

you must be international code
our trap arm lengths
1 1/4 2'6''
1 1/2 3'6''
2'' 5'
3'' 6'
4'' and larger 10'


we use he 1 1/4 size to calculate with we also use 2 1/2'' to use in calculations

like...if 2 urinals side by side and you want to use a fixture fitting

the barrel of the fitting, has to be 2 pipe sizes larger. than the trap size

so, urinal trap is 2'' using 2 1/2 and 3'' . as the pipe sizes

we can use 3'' instead of 4''

 

[frodo]

you see a hump ?

 

[JacksonPark]

Here is what I did today; I think this gets what you suggested. I fixed exerythign so there is 1/4" fall on it all.

The pipe is 2".

If this looks good I'll cement everything

Thanks!

 

[stevemachine]

we dont use 1 1/4 either, even in commercial we only use 1 1/2

you must be international code
our trap arm lengths
1 1/4 2'6''
1 1/2 3'6''
2'' 5'
3'' 6'
4'' and larger 10'


we use he 1 1/4 size to calculate with we also use 2 1/2'' to use in calculations

like...if 2 urinals side by side and you want to use a fixture fitting

the barrel of the fitting, has to be 2 pipe sizes larger. than the trap size

so, urinal trap is 2'' using 2 1/2 and 3'' . as the pipe sizes

we can use 3'' instead of 4''

Interesting. Ours is just one pipe diameter fall for trap arms so 4" is good for 32 ft ie 1/8" per ft over 32 ft equals 4" fall or 3" is good for 12 ft (1/4" per ft over 12 ft is 3")

 

[stevemachine]

Interesting that there can be such differences in code for something as simple as trap arm lengths