a/c condensate drains

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cgilley

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My house was built in 1989, I'm pretty sure it was the builder's first house, and for the last 30 years I've been trying to de-fluster-cluck his nonsense. Don't get me started on my county inspectors, they are even worse. Anyway, so, two story house on a crawlspace. HVAC in the attic and HVAC in the crawlspace. The 2nd floor condensate drain runs down through the stack and into the crawlspace where it tees into the 1st floor condensate drain. Years ago, the final pipe went through the crawlspace wall to an outside location with poor drainage. The result was 5 months of mud and muck.

So, I replaced the final pipe with a condensate pump and ran the output line to a flower bed. This was about 10+ years ago. Yesterday, I discovered the output line had twisted, so I have some cleanup work to do :(.

What are we doing now in modern construction? Are condensate pumps still a solution (I suppose they are) but is there anything better?

Appreciate any feedback.
 
hard piping to exterior is ideal and still gold standard. Digging a bucket into the ground, make holes is sides and putting in drain rock can help prevent mucky ground. Even without a bucket, just drain rocks 1' deep.
condensate pumps are fine, especially when wired with the thermostat so everything shuts off if the pump stops pumping.
 
I've had condensation pump troubles a lot in the past. You actually get a lot more condensation than you would think. My solution at this point is a little convoluted, but it works. I have my condensate drain into a large container that holds the pump, if that pump sticks or fails for some reason, this container is actually inside another container that has a second pump. It also contains a water alert that screams, plus sends me an email, letting me know the first pump failed. (Which has happened) but the second pump kicks in and pumps it out. And if I didn't happen to hear the alert, I get an email. While the second pump takes over , until I fix the original pump. That way the ac is still running.
Breplumbs bucket would never work for as much condensate that I get.
I pump mine into an old unused washing machine drain line.
 
I've had condensation pump troubles a lot in the past. You actually get a lot more condensation than you would think. My solution at this point is a little convoluted, but it works. I have my condensate drain into a large container that holds the pump, if that pump sticks or fails for some reason, this container is actually inside another container that has a second pump. It also contains a water alert that screams, plus sends me an email, letting me know the first pump failed. (Which has happened) but the second pump kicks in and pumps it out. And if I didn't happen to hear the alert, I get an email. While the second pump takes over , until I fix the original pump. That way the ac is still running.
Breplumbs bucket would never work for as much condensate that I get.
I pump mine into an old unused washing machine drain line.
I like the redundancy.
 
What are we doing now in modern construction? Are condensate pumps still a solution (I suppose they are) but is there anything better?

Appreciate any feedback.
During my Home Inspection career recently, when I inspected a lot of new construction, I noted several different condensate arrangements. It kind of depended on the builder's spec, perhaps in concert with discussion with their plumber and or HVAC subcontractor, since the subs that actually install these things ONLY do what the builder has specified. So, here's what I've seen. Remember this is in answer to your "modern" construction question.

1. Primary drain hard piped to outside, just a raw dump (there's that muck situation). This works with gravity so if the equipment is in the attic, great. In a crawl space, generally with a condensate pump. The pump always has a switch so if its small tank is full and cannot pump, the equipment shuts down.

2. Secondary drain from a drain pan generally is piped to just above a window on the 2nd floor; the ostensible reason for this is you'll notice a dripping out of that drain, and then note your primary drain is not functioning. My guess is less than 1% of homeowners know about this. Many homes don't have this secondary drain, nor do they have a drain at all from the pan underneath the equipment. In these cases they'll have a float or other water-detecting switch to shut down the HVAC in case water is in the pan. My own opinion is this is kind of dicey, I've seen older switches totally non-functional, and also placed where it would take a LONG time for water to reach it. Not a great plan. I've also seen really haphazard hard piping from this pan, bad enough that it would not function as intended. Red Flag.

3. Primary drain 2.0: this is when the equipment is in the attic, and the laundry room is on either the first or second floor. There is hard piping to just above the washing machine drain standpipe. Condensate then drips into that; "just above" means it has the "air gap". In my work as a handyman I've heard people complaining about the dripping noise...

In my own home, the first floor HVAC is a condensing unit so it's always making water, and that originally drained to outside. That has the switch built in, so in case of failure of the pump, the HVAC shuts down. The second floor unit was originally hard piped to outside also, but no pump needed. As @cgilley points out, that side of my home never dried out--ever. There was water dumping there year round. So my solution, reported here a few years ago, was to bring the upstairs drain to a condensate pump; re-route the downstairs unit to a drain trap assembly I added to my home's primary drain system (it actually ties into a smaller branch used for the washing machine drain). I used a 1.5" PVC trap into the main drain line, and put an air gap unit on top of the the trap. All condensate goes through the air gap, into a trap, and into the home's drain. Is it totally legit? Don't know, don't care. It works perfectly, it's trapped, it's got an air gap, and the side of my home is dry. The water flow is nearly constant when the downstairs unit is operating in any mode, and also constant when the upstairs unit is in a/c mode. It's not a LOT of flow, just a trickle, but it is constant. The second condensate pump was installed when the crawl space was encapsulated, and takes water from the dehumidifier. That pump sits in a plastic tub with a water alarm. Problem solved.
 
My A/C guy installed an auto shut off when it senses water in the pan in my attic. This is plugged in to an electric outlet, so I don't need to worry about dead batteries. The installer is a friend, so if I have no air, he will run over and deal with the issue.
 
I've had condensation pump troubles a lot in the past. You actually get a lot more condensation than you would think. My solution at this point is a little convoluted, but it works. I have my condensate drain into a large container that holds the pump, if that pump sticks or fails for some reason, this container is actually inside another container that has a second pump. It also contains a water alert that screams, plus sends me an email, letting me know the first pump failed. (Which has happened) but the second pump kicks in and pumps it out. And if I didn't happen to hear the alert, I get an email. While the second pump takes over , until I fix the original pump. That way the ac is still running.
Breplumbs bucket would never work for as much condensate that I get.
I pump mine into an old unused washing machine drain line.
Can you have it send you a backup telegram in case your email goes down? How about you wear some electrodes and a capacitor and any leak or failure hits you with 20 volts or so?

Just messing with you, your system sounds as foolproof as can be designed! Great job!
 
During my Home Inspection career recently, when I inspected a lot of new construction, I noted several different condensate arrangements. It kind of depended on the builder's spec, perhaps in concert with discussion with their plumber and or HVAC subcontractor, since the subs that actually install these things ONLY do what the builder has specified. So, here's what I've seen. Remember this is in answer to your "modern" construction question.

1. Primary drain hard piped to outside, just a raw dump (there's that muck situation). This works with gravity so if the equipment is in the attic, great. In a crawl space, generally with a condensate pump. The pump always has a switch so if its small tank is full and cannot pump, the equipment shuts down.

2. Secondary drain from a drain pan generally is piped to just above a window on the 2nd floor; the ostensible reason for this is you'll notice a dripping out of that drain, and then note your primary drain is not functioning. My guess is less than 1% of homeowners know about this. Many homes don't have this secondary drain, nor do they have a drain at all from the pan underneath the equipment. In these cases they'll have a float or other water-detecting switch to shut down the HVAC in case water is in the pan. My own opinion is this is kind of dicey, I've seen older switches totally non-functional, and also placed where it would take a LONG time for water to reach it. Not a great plan. I've also seen really haphazard hard piping from this pan, bad enough that it would not function as intended. Red Flag.

3. Primary drain 2.0: this is when the equipment is in the attic, and the laundry room is on either the first or second floor. There is hard piping to just above the washing machine drain standpipe. Condensate then drips into that; "just above" means it has the "air gap". In my work as a handyman I've heard people complaining about the dripping noise...

In my own home, the first floor HVAC is a condensing unit so it's always making water, and that originally drained to outside. That has the switch built in, so in case of failure of the pump, the HVAC shuts down. The second floor unit was originally hard piped to outside also, but no pump needed. As @cgilley points out, that side of my home never dried out--ever. There was water dumping there year round. So my solution, reported here a few years ago, was to bring the upstairs drain to a condensate pump; re-route the downstairs unit to a drain trap assembly I added to my home's primary drain system (it actually ties into a smaller branch used for the washing machine drain). I used a 1.5" PVC trap into the main drain line, and put an air gap unit on top of the the trap. All condensate goes through the air gap, into a trap, and into the home's drain. Is it totally legit? Don't know, don't care. It works perfectly, it's trapped, it's got an air gap, and the side of my home is dry. The water flow is nearly constant when the downstairs unit is operating in any mode, and also constant when the upstairs unit is in a/c mode. It's not a LOT of flow, just a trickle, but it is constant. The second condensate pump was installed when the crawl space was encapsulated, and takes water from the dehumidifier. That pump sits in a plastic tub with a water alarm. Problem solved.

Considering the cost of a new HVAC system and it's potential to damage your house, I am stunned by the lack of innovation. Sure, now there is a cutoff switch that can be wired in. But for minimal cost - and I know some systems have these already - the HVAC system should simply include all of this. The HVAC is permanently wired into the house - no batteries needed. It's like the industry is living in the 60s. They make zero effort to address issues that would up their brand name; rather, I get some salesman trying to sell me $30k worth of HVAC (2 systems) with zone control, but if I cannot afford it, he'll set up a lease plan.

Folks, if you reach the point where you have to start leasing your equipment, here's your sign.
 
Okay, back to the original issue - the crawslpace is drying out, the pump has been replaced, and I am STUNNED out how much water is coming out of the system. It's very humid here - 60 miles north of Atlanta - and I have at least 3 gallons/day getting pumped out. I think I need to tighten up the sealing in my house - but that's another story :).

Next up is putting the pump in a catch pan with a water detector. I have an outlet right there, so wiring is easy.
 
During my Home Inspection career recently, when I inspected a lot of new construction, I noted several different condensate arrangements. It kind of depended on the builder's spec, perhaps in concert with discussion with their plumber and or HVAC subcontractor, since the subs that actually install these things ONLY do what the builder has specified. So, here's what I've seen. Remember this is in answer to your "modern" construction question.

1. Primary drain hard piped to outside, just a raw dump (there's that muck situation). This works with gravity so if the equipment is in the attic, great. In a crawl space, generally with a condensate pump. The pump always has a switch so if its small tank is full and cannot pump, the equipment shuts down.

2. Secondary drain from a drain pan generally is piped to just above a window on the 2nd floor; the ostensible reason for this is you'll notice a dripping out of that drain, and then note your primary drain is not functioning. My guess is less than 1% of homeowners know about this. Many homes don't have this secondary drain, nor do they have a drain at all from the pan underneath the equipment. In these cases they'll have a float or other water-detecting switch to shut down the HVAC in case water is in the pan. My own opinion is this is kind of dicey, I've seen older switches totally non-functional, and also placed where it would take a LONG time for water to reach it. Not a great plan. I've also seen really haphazard hard piping from this pan, bad enough that it would not function as intended. Red Flag.

3. Primary drain 2.0: this is when the equipment is in the attic, and the laundry room is on either the first or second floor. There is hard piping to just above the washing machine drain standpipe. Condensate then drips into that; "just above" means it has the "air gap". In my work as a handyman I've heard people complaining about the dripping noise...

In my own home, the first floor HVAC is a condensing unit so it's always making water, and that originally drained to outside. That has the switch built in, so in case of failure of the pump, the HVAC shuts down. The second floor unit was originally hard piped to outside also, but no pump needed. As @cgilley points out, that side of my home never dried out--ever. There was water dumping there year round. So my solution, reported here a few years ago, was to bring the upstairs drain to a condensate pump; re-route the downstairs unit to a drain trap assembly I added to my home's primary drain system (it actually ties into a smaller branch used for the washing machine drain). I used a 1.5" PVC trap into the main drain line, and put an air gap unit on top of the the trap. All condensate goes through the air gap, into a trap, and into the home's drain. Is it totally legit? Don't know, don't care. It works perfectly, it's trapped, it's got an air gap, and the side of my home is dry. The water flow is nearly constant when the downstairs unit is operating in any mode, and also constant when the upstairs unit is in a/c mode. It's not a LOT of flow, just a trickle, but it is constant. The second condensate pump was installed when the crawl space was encapsulated, and takes water from the dehumidifier. That pump sits in a plastic tub with a water alarm. Problem solved.

Mitch - pretty sure most builders don't care as long as they pass inspection, but maybe some do. pm'ing you a question.
 
Okay, back to the original issue - the crawslpace is drying out, the pump has been replaced, and I am STUNNED out how much water is coming out of the system. It's very humid here - 60 miles north of Atlanta - and I have at least 3 gallons/day getting pumped out. I think I need to tighten up the sealing in my house - but that's another story :).

Next up is putting the pump in a catch pan with a water detector. I have an outlet right there, so wiring is easy.
My question would be, do you have a spot to drain that much water everyday, nonstop, until humidity is gone... which for 60 miles north of Atlanta will be a long time .
Just consider, that pump will fail, you won't hear your detector.
That's why I put in a pump with a backup and the detector that emails me.
I got tired of cleaning up the mess when my one pump would stick or fail.
 
yes as to the drain question. Instead of having it stick 2" out of the side of the house from a pipe, I added the pump and I run a drain to the front flower bed. Usually, every spring when the a/c comes on, I direct the hose to a container to make sure I know it's working. I'll be upgrading that this year. Pump goes into a pan, the pan has a water detector, etc.
 
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