I just returned from a 6 week trip out to Colorado to help my sister get ready to move and to get the original house ready to be sold - my brother-in-law just died and sister is moving to a smaller house.
I had talked to my wife regularly and about 3 weeks ago she said that she thought the washing machine was leaking as there was a lot of water from the machine to the basement floor drain.
I told her to hold off using the machine for a couple of days, after which she told me the water was still present.
I asked her to check all of the pipes in vicinity of the machine to see if any were leaking. She said she could not find any leaks.
To cut to the chase - I found that the water meter is leaking and the water is flowing behind my workbench and then out under the washing machine. and then to the floor drain.
I knew something was very wrong when I got home and went down to the basement - a strong smell of mildew, rust on a lot of things (unfortunately a lot of my tools), some boxes got wet and the books inside are ruined, etc.
My wife left for trip to visit her parents in Texas the day before I got home.
Since it will be only me here, I decided to fill the bathtub with water and use that water to flush the toilet (as infrequently as possible) and for potable and washing water. After washing the tub well, and filling it, I went to close the inside shutoff valve.
Oh - As for the water company, I will be talking to them tomorrow.
This house was built in 1926. The indoor shutoff valve looks to be the original and the handle is off - the center screw hole to hold the handle is stripped. So, I got a pair of vise grips and closed the valve - or thought I did.
the first thing I noticed was that the valve is leaking, very slowly, drop by drop - I don't blame it since it is so old.
I turned the valve as far as it would go clockwise but the meter is still leaking.
The meter leak is from a very small hole and is a small spray of water, rather than a freely flowing leak.
At first I thought it was still leaking because there was pressurized water still in the pipe between the meter and the shutoff. After a couple of minutes, when it was still leaking, I checked some faucets and found there is still water flow, albeit slight compared to normal flow.
My thoughts then turned to the outside shutoff - if there is on.
I've lived here since 1983 and have never seen any indication of a outside shutoff valve. I know where the sewer access is but I've never encountered anything else in the yard and I've done a great deal of landscaping in the years I've been here.
Would a house built in 1926 have an outside shutoff valve?
Assuming there is one, how would I go about finding it? I'd like to locate it so that when the water company comes out to replace the meter, I can at least lead them to it. I really doubt they have any records showing the placement.
Ideally I'd like to shut the water off at the outside valve but not knowing whether there is one, where it might be, or what sort of valve or valves are present puts that on hold.
Let's assume there is an outside shutoff and closing it will allow the meter to be replaced without the water company employee and me getting drenched.
There is still the issue of replacing the inside shutoff valve. It is clear that the water supply line is lead pipe, not that unusual for a house this old. The shutoff valve is right above the very short piece of iron pipe that is sweated onto the lead pipe.
I am not going to try and replace the shutoff myself but I worry that I may not be able to find a plumber who can cope with the situation.
I saw a report about Flint, Michigan where they were replacing lead water pipes, from the street to the house. They dug what was a repetitively small hole in the street, attached a new pipe to the old pipe, inside the house, and used the old pipe to pull the new pipe out to the main.
Does anyone any experience is such an operation? Does anyone have a guess at the cost?
To recap:
Should I expect that there is an outside shutoff valve?
How would I locate it?
Given the age of the house (built in 1926) what sort of shutoff valve would it be?
Should I expect to find a meter at the outside shutoff valve?
I ask that because the indoor meter is leaking on the upstream side, that is, before the water flows through the meter mechanism. That means the water that has been leaking for at least 3 weeks has not been "metered."
However, if there is any outdoor meter, all the water, leaked or otherwise, will have been metered.
I'd like to prepare myself for a huge bill if there is an outdoor meter
Oh - there was a lot of stuff blocking full access to the meter. And, of course, most of it got wet. I spent this evening moving everything and throwing out what is ruined. There is now unfettered access to the meter and shutoff valve.
The meter and shutoff valve were originally accessible, as far as checking the meter and operating the shutoff but I knew the water company employee would need much more access.
I guess I could have the water company out on an emergency call to close the outside valve (I hope there is one) but a few more hours of leaking won't cause any appreciative additional damage.
When I finish with this post, I'm going to take the drain pan from a dehumidifier, attach a hose to it, position it so that the leak sprays into the pan, and run the hose to the floor drain. That will at least avoid the water traveling the original route.
The first photo, below, shows the meter and if you look carefully you can see the spray of water coming out of the left side at the back at an angle downward.
The second photo shows the shutoff valve and you can see how a short piece of pipe was sweated onto the lead supply pipe.
As you can see, there is a lot of rust around the meter and valve.
I'm really concerned as to whether anyone can remove the replace the shutoff valve without damaging the sweat joint.
Perhaps it would be best to cut the pipe a few inches above the valve and put a new valve there. The original valve could then be left open - I've never seen it leak when fully open.
So - any thoughts on my questions, above, or just in general?
A couple more questions:
If there is an outside shutoff, given its age, what is the likelihood that it will leak when it is opened after all the work is done.
If such a leak occurs, how does the water company turn off the water in order to replace the outside valve??
Bob
I had talked to my wife regularly and about 3 weeks ago she said that she thought the washing machine was leaking as there was a lot of water from the machine to the basement floor drain.
I told her to hold off using the machine for a couple of days, after which she told me the water was still present.
I asked her to check all of the pipes in vicinity of the machine to see if any were leaking. She said she could not find any leaks.
To cut to the chase - I found that the water meter is leaking and the water is flowing behind my workbench and then out under the washing machine. and then to the floor drain.
I knew something was very wrong when I got home and went down to the basement - a strong smell of mildew, rust on a lot of things (unfortunately a lot of my tools), some boxes got wet and the books inside are ruined, etc.
My wife left for trip to visit her parents in Texas the day before I got home.
Since it will be only me here, I decided to fill the bathtub with water and use that water to flush the toilet (as infrequently as possible) and for potable and washing water. After washing the tub well, and filling it, I went to close the inside shutoff valve.
Oh - As for the water company, I will be talking to them tomorrow.
This house was built in 1926. The indoor shutoff valve looks to be the original and the handle is off - the center screw hole to hold the handle is stripped. So, I got a pair of vise grips and closed the valve - or thought I did.
the first thing I noticed was that the valve is leaking, very slowly, drop by drop - I don't blame it since it is so old.
I turned the valve as far as it would go clockwise but the meter is still leaking.
The meter leak is from a very small hole and is a small spray of water, rather than a freely flowing leak.
At first I thought it was still leaking because there was pressurized water still in the pipe between the meter and the shutoff. After a couple of minutes, when it was still leaking, I checked some faucets and found there is still water flow, albeit slight compared to normal flow.
My thoughts then turned to the outside shutoff - if there is on.
I've lived here since 1983 and have never seen any indication of a outside shutoff valve. I know where the sewer access is but I've never encountered anything else in the yard and I've done a great deal of landscaping in the years I've been here.
Would a house built in 1926 have an outside shutoff valve?
Assuming there is one, how would I go about finding it? I'd like to locate it so that when the water company comes out to replace the meter, I can at least lead them to it. I really doubt they have any records showing the placement.
Ideally I'd like to shut the water off at the outside valve but not knowing whether there is one, where it might be, or what sort of valve or valves are present puts that on hold.
Let's assume there is an outside shutoff and closing it will allow the meter to be replaced without the water company employee and me getting drenched.
There is still the issue of replacing the inside shutoff valve. It is clear that the water supply line is lead pipe, not that unusual for a house this old. The shutoff valve is right above the very short piece of iron pipe that is sweated onto the lead pipe.
I am not going to try and replace the shutoff myself but I worry that I may not be able to find a plumber who can cope with the situation.
I saw a report about Flint, Michigan where they were replacing lead water pipes, from the street to the house. They dug what was a repetitively small hole in the street, attached a new pipe to the old pipe, inside the house, and used the old pipe to pull the new pipe out to the main.
Does anyone any experience is such an operation? Does anyone have a guess at the cost?
To recap:
Should I expect that there is an outside shutoff valve?
How would I locate it?
Given the age of the house (built in 1926) what sort of shutoff valve would it be?
Should I expect to find a meter at the outside shutoff valve?
I ask that because the indoor meter is leaking on the upstream side, that is, before the water flows through the meter mechanism. That means the water that has been leaking for at least 3 weeks has not been "metered."
However, if there is any outdoor meter, all the water, leaked or otherwise, will have been metered.
I'd like to prepare myself for a huge bill if there is an outdoor meter
Oh - there was a lot of stuff blocking full access to the meter. And, of course, most of it got wet. I spent this evening moving everything and throwing out what is ruined. There is now unfettered access to the meter and shutoff valve.
The meter and shutoff valve were originally accessible, as far as checking the meter and operating the shutoff but I knew the water company employee would need much more access.
I guess I could have the water company out on an emergency call to close the outside valve (I hope there is one) but a few more hours of leaking won't cause any appreciative additional damage.
When I finish with this post, I'm going to take the drain pan from a dehumidifier, attach a hose to it, position it so that the leak sprays into the pan, and run the hose to the floor drain. That will at least avoid the water traveling the original route.
The first photo, below, shows the meter and if you look carefully you can see the spray of water coming out of the left side at the back at an angle downward.
The second photo shows the shutoff valve and you can see how a short piece of pipe was sweated onto the lead supply pipe.
As you can see, there is a lot of rust around the meter and valve.
I'm really concerned as to whether anyone can remove the replace the shutoff valve without damaging the sweat joint.
Perhaps it would be best to cut the pipe a few inches above the valve and put a new valve there. The original valve could then be left open - I've never seen it leak when fully open.
So - any thoughts on my questions, above, or just in general?
A couple more questions:
If there is an outside shutoff, given its age, what is the likelihood that it will leak when it is opened after all the work is done.
If such a leak occurs, how does the water company turn off the water in order to replace the outside valve??
Bob
