Water Leak inside the well

[rajsingh]

Hi All,

I recently noticed the shower pressure wasn't very high. I thought I may have to readjust the pressure switch. But when I attached a water pressure gauge on the outside water spigot, the psi never went above 30. Generally I have it set around 30 psi cut in and 50 psi cut off. I then went to the well pump PVC pipe and heard sounds of water falling into the well and the motor continually running. I turned off the motor and I continued to hear what sounded like water falling into the well and this sound continued until the water pressure gauge went down to 0. When I turned the motor back on, the sound started again.

The pitless adapter is 3 feet 9 inches below the top of the PVC pipe. I used a endoscope camera and sent it down there to see if there was a leak and I didn't see anything. I then attached napkins to a thin rod and sent it into the well about 8 feet below and when I pulled it out, the napkins were dry. I would've never imagined a pipe leak below 8 feet into the well. We built a tool 2 years ago to unscrew the flipper holding the adapter about 3 feet 9 inches into the well, we built it to pull out my uncle's well pump, so I'm glad I have that and I'll be pulling it out this weekend with their help to see what's the issue. But I wanted to ask here, if anyone can think of how that leak could have happened or where this leak could be?

Thanks

 

[RS]

You didn't say how far down the pump is, if it's not too deep you could pull it if you're ok doing that. My wife and I pulled a 3/4 hp pump once that was down 130 feet once, by hand, but we were younger then! One of the wires was broken 2 feet above the pump because I hadn't taped it secure enough. We fixed it for almost nothing and put the pump back in the well, and all was fine for as long as we owned it. In your case it's very common for the pipes or adapters to crack in the threads right next to the pump or the pit less adapter. I wish our current problem was as simple, I'm afraid there is a small leak between the well and our cabin, and that pit less and line is down 8 feet!

 

[Valveman]

Sorry for the delay. Most leaks in the well are a couple inches above the pump on a metal fitting. Dissimilar metals screwed together at the pump causes electrolysis that eats a hole in the weakest fitting. Wrapping these fittings with electric tape will prevent that from happening in the future.

 

[RS]

That is true Valveman, but a leak right above the pump would most likely be somewhat below the static water level in the well and I don't think you would hear it very well. If the pump is hanging on galvanized pipe the leak could be anywhere it's threaded, once you thread the pipe it's not galvanized anymore. 25 years ago, a couple of my co-workers had theirs leak from the exact problem you described, so I pulled our pump and changed the pipe before it failed. Our water table was quite high, so there was only one length of pipe above the pump.

 

[Valveman]

Yep, once you thread the pipe it is no longer galvanized. I always tape over those connections and 30 years later they look like new under the tape.

The hole will be considerably below the static level. But you would be surprised how much noise it makes to have water running back through that pipe when it has 60-40 pressure at the top and more at the bottom squirting through that hole. You can hear the water running in the pipe at 10+ feet per second even if you can't hear it coming out the hole.

 

[rajsingh]

Hi All,

We pulled the pipe out yesterday. This was not a black poly pipe, but a 1 inch PVC pipe. It was a little difficult pulling it out, because PVC pipe doesn't bend nicely, makes quite a big curve, so we were afraid it was going to snap. One person got on the step ladder to help it curve nicely and then bring it to the ground. One of the PVC couplings was causing the leak, or just the tip of it. We didn't see the actual hole as the PVC pipe broke up from that point as we were pulling the pump up and the pump wires held it from falling into the abyss. We then pulled the wires up about another 5 feet and then grabbed the remaining pvc pipe and pulled it up. So the pump was about 70 feet down and the leak was at the 35 feet pvc coupling area. So I bought some PVC cement and 1 inch coupling, cut the pipes a little, cleaned and sanded it a little and put it together. ANd then with help of 3 people holding the pvc pipe as high into the air as possible to help it curve nicely, we then lowered it down, while another person kept applying electric tape every 10 feet or so. Project successful.

I wanted to attach a safety rope to the pipe, but there were no holes on it unlike another well pump that I saw last year. I thought about claiming the safety rope to it, but it was getting dark and we wanted running water. The rep at Lowes mentioned that PVC cement will hold, the pipe will break before the cement wears off. So took that risk, and lowered the pump.

 

[RS]

Good job! But yes, the pump should have a rope on it, pulling it up by the wires is risky! Thanks for the update.

 

[GymBag]

IF the pump has to come out again, you could tie a slip knot around the pipe at the location of your choice and wrap a stainless hose clamp around both, above the knot. If you want to be a bit OCD about it, add a second clamp.

 

[Valveman]

I have pulled lots of pumps by the wires. Safety rope or cable should never be used in a well. They turn into a rats nest and lock the pump in the well if the break or fall in the well. Just need to use pipe strong enough a safety is not needed. I also would never glue anything down the well. Plastic coupling, glued or threaded are just problems waiting to happen. 160# black poly or Sch 80 and 120 threaded PVC with metal threaded couplings are the only pipes I would put down a well.

But you did good to get it back working.

 

[Ludington]

I have pulled lots of pumps by the wires. Safety tope or cable should never be used in a well. They turn into a rats nest and lock the pump in the well if the break or fall in the well. Just need to use pipe strong enough a safety is not needed. I also would never glue anything down the well. Plastic coupling, glued or threaded are just problems waiting to happen. 160# black poly or Sch 80 and 120 threaded PVC with metal threaded couplings are the only pipes I would put down a well.

But you did good to get it back working.

No safety rope ? Maybe I was just lucky, when I last pulled my pump, it had been down for 20+ years. The nylon safty rope looked fine, so it was just re-tied to the new pump. Hopfully after 20+ more years it will come up and it will get changed out... but, I'll probably be gone by then..

 

[Valveman]

No safety rope ? Maybe I was just lucky, when I last pulled my pump, it had been down for 20+ years. The nylon safty rope looked fine, so it was just re-tied to the new pump. Hopfully after 20+ more years it will come up and it will get changed out... but, I'll probably be gone by then..

Re-using the old safety rope can be a problem. The top part gets exposed to the sun or environment and degrades like all plastic does over time. It becomes brittle and weak. When someone pulls on it or maybe all on its own it will break at the top and slingshots down the well casing. Piled up at the bottom like a rat's nest in an open face fishing reel, this rope is hard to retrieve. If you then pull on the pipe and wire, it will wedge the rope beside the pump and stick like a Chinese finger trap.

I never put anything down a well that doesn't have to be there as that is just one more opportunity for a failure. The pipe needs to be strong enough not to need a safety cable or rope. No torque arrestors, wire stand offs, pipe wrenches, or anything else should go down a well either.

If you do have to pull it, just be very careful with that old rope.

 

[Ludington]

Re-using the old safety rope can be a problem. The top part gets exposed to the sun or environment and degrades like all plastic does over time. It becomes brittle and weak. When someone pulls on it or maybe all on its own it will break at the top and slingshots down the well casing. Piled up at the bottom like a rat's nest in an open face fishing reel, this rope is hard to retrieve. If you then pull on the pipe and wire, it will wedge the rope beside the pump and stick like a Chinese finger trap.

I never put anything down a well that doesn't have to be there as that is just one more opportunity for a failure. The pipe needs to be strong enough not to need a safety cable or rope. No torque arrestors, wire stand offs, pipe wrenches, or anything else should go down a well either.

If you do have to pull it, just be very careful with that old rope.

Good advice... the one thing going for me, is that it's covered and never sees the sun. Doesn't mean it won't degrade, so I'll be carefull. Never thought about it breaking and coiling up to become a wedge.
Thanks, now to remember this year's from now. But so far we have just used the pipe to pull up with. 2x in 40 years. First time the wire shorted from rubbing. Second time, the pump just quit. 15 years on #1 25 on #2.
Hope I'm gone for #3. 25 years from now....