Tankless hot water heater help

[TomFOhio]

How big is your kitchen?? Could you put one in there and then close it in with a louvered door.

 

[Justindubois43]

How big is your kitchen?? Could you put one in there and then close it in with a louvered door.

Not really, we like the tank and it's location just gotta fix the pipes

 

[TomFOhio]

Okay

 

[hdtvkeith]

I do not get why so many people think thankless is the way to go.
1) a tank is much cheaper than a tankless.
2) if you have lets say a 60 gallon hot water tank you can do dishes, wash clothes in the clothes washer, take a shower, all at the same time. in tankless it would cut back on the volume .

Because a tankless should last 20+ years and use far less energy. You only heat what you use. A regular water heater is heating water on standby. The water temp then starts to drop until the burner kicks in again to keep it in range. If I use my hot water (traditional heater) right after it heated up the water is noticeably hotter than if I catch it near the bottom of the range. This is wasteful of energy. Also as you use hot water the tank pulls on cold water immediately starting to pull down the temperature of the existing water. Space saving is another huge factor. The downside, especially when retrofitting older home, is the gas usage on gas models. Tankless can only rise the water temp a certain amount at a certain flow rate. If you have cold tap water and like 140F water this will cause the flow rate to drop to maintain the rate of rise. This is addressed in bigger models, but bigger models pull a lot of gas, I believe as much as 3X what a home furnace can pull. If you home has pipes are not sized large enough this can cause issue if multiple gas devices (furnace, gas range, gas dryer, etc) are running at same time. My home because of the length and bends (yes each bend needs to be factored in) would require me to redo my gas line, so for me it is not worth it. I won’t speak to electrical units as electricity is usually more costly and less efficient than gas so I don’t know how the numbers work out there.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Electric is very energy efficient.

Electricity is just expensive.

If electric is so bad then why are we making cars that run on electricity ?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Let a tankless give you trouble that’s not so common or even common repairs ......pay those service call repairs and you’ll rethink what waste is. Just sayin.

 

[hdtvkeith]

Electric is very energy efficient.

Electricity is just expensive.

If electric is so bad then why are we making cars that run on electricity ?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Let a tankless give you trouble that’s not so common or even common repairs ......pay those service call repairs and you’ll rethink what waste is. Just sayin.

Electricity is cheaper than gasoline. I have 2 EVs and and it saves me a ton of money. Natural gas is more efficient than electricity for things like dryers. I think the real issue that drives electricity up is not the local efficient of it use, but the cost to generate it and deliver it as the losses over distances are some of the issue.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Electric is very energy efficient.
Electricity is just expensive.
If electric is so bad then why are we making cars that run on electricity ?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Let a tankless give you trouble that’s not so common or even common repairs ......pay those service call repairs and you’ll rethink what waste is. Just sayin.

A gasoline powered engine for a car is about 20% thermally efficient.
Diesel powered engines are closer to 50% efficient.
An electrically powered car motor is about 90% efficient.

BUT...and this is a big but...
There is an infrastructure in place worldwide to fuel diesel and gasoline vehicles quickly. 5-10 minutes at a pump and there's another 300 mile range.
There is little infrastructure in place anywhere to fuel an electric vehicle. The best "infrastructure" is the one in your garage. Even the fastest chargers announced (but not available) will take a full 15 minutes to charge a car...but commercial only as it consumes 360kW. Not for your home. Typical Level II chargers using 240VAC for home use will take many hours. A ChargePoint unit adds 25 miles of range for each hour connected while drawing 32A. About 7.6 kW.
Electric cars from anyone like their environment like a human does. Between 68 and 72 degrees. For the driver and passenger compartment, much lower and you'll need heat; much higher and you'll need a/c. At the lower temps, the batteries themselves need to be warmed. In the heat they also need to be cooled. Thus they are great in SoCal year round. Bad in Alaska in the winter, and in South Florida in the summer.
Long distance driving in any electric car needs some planning on your "fuel stops"; you need to allow time to charge and plan a route that includes known and proven charge stations that you are allowed to use at a reasonable price.

We had two Plug In Hybrid vehicles; yes you could charge them but they also had a small Atkinson cycle gasoline engine. They had an 18 mile range on full battery charge. If you used the a/c or the heat, that would drop to nothing in a heartbeat, and the gas engine would kick on. The local public library had a charge station; cost about $2.50 per hour to charge. Wouldn't even bring it up much, an extremely costly way to "fuel" your car. Best to stop at a gas station.

I'm all for hybrid vehicles (we own an Escape Hybrid now and getting a replacement this year) but full electric w/o a gas engine? Not for me yet.

 

[Twowaxhack]

My point was that electric is efficient for water heating, it’s just not economical.

That can change over night if our government wanted it to.

 

[arctic bill]

Because a tankless should last 20+ years and use far less energy. You only heat what you use. A regular water heater is heating water on standby. The water temp then starts to drop until the burner kicks in again to keep it in range. If I use my hot water (traditional heater) right after it heated up the water is noticeably hotter than if I catch it near the bottom of the range. This is wasteful of energy. Also as you use hot water the tank pulls on cold water immediately starting to pull down the temperature of the existing water. Space saving is another huge factor. The downside, especially when retrofitting older home, is the gas usage on gas models. Tankless can only rise the water temp a certain amount at a certain flow rate. If you have cold tap water and like 140F water this will cause the flow rate to drop to maintain the rate of rise. This is addressed in bigger models, but bigger models pull a lot of gas, I believe as much as 3X what a home furnace can pull. If you home has pipes are not sized large enough this can cause issue if multiple gas devices (furnace, gas range, gas dryer, etc) are running at same time. My home because of the length and bends (yes each bend needs to be factored in) would require me to redo my gas line, so for me it is not worth it. I won’t speak to electrical units as electricity is usually more costly and less efficient than gas so I don’t know how the numbers work out there.

first off all the energy that you call waste does heat the house, so in most places that not a loss per say. but in texas yes it is a loss in summer but not in winter .
2nd hot water tank usually last about 15 years and are much cheaper I would say about $500 for a 60 gal .

 

[hdtvkeith]

My point was that electric is efficient for water heating, it’s just not economical.

That can change over night if our government wanted it to.

Yeah and that was my point as well, the generation and transmission loss make it not economical. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Twowaxhack]

In my opinion we are nothing but slaves to world governments that sell us food and energy. The exchange of money doesn’t change what’s happening.

We do not live in a free market. The government controls the price of everything and the value of the currency.

Make a list of all the things that the government makes you pay for.

Hunting license
Fishing license
Drivers license
Boat license
Home alarm Permits
Concealed carry permits
Income tax
Sales tax
Lodging tax
Property tax
Inventory tax
Alcohol tax
Import tax
Export tax
Death tax
Car tag license plate

And I could keep going

 

[arctic bill]

I like licences being taxed, but let me explain before you all kill me.
I want some one driving a car to be tested for competence.
I want some one shooting to be tested for competence.
I want some one driving a boat to be tested for competence.
You get where i an going.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

And the testing of competency takes time, effort and money…

…hence the taxes.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I like licences being taxed, but let me explain before you all kill me.
I want some one driving a car to be tested for competence.
I want some one shooting to be tested for competence.
I want some one driving a boat to be tested for competence.
You get where i an going.

These are not one time fees......but they should be.

How many times you take the driving test ?

How many times you take a boating test ? A boat has a registration just like a car tag, every year.

You see where I’m going

 

[hdtvkeith]

first off all the energy that you call waste does heat the house, so in most places that not a loss per say. but in texas yes it is a loss in summer but not in winter

Not is water heater is in unconditioned or non-living space. Mine is in my garage as I know many are. Heck, in the 80's in the south energy efficiency was not even on their radar when they built houses. They did not use any vapor barriers on my home.

 

[Twowaxhack]

first off all the energy that you call waste does heat the house, so in most places that not a loss per say. but in texas yes it is a loss in summer but not in winter .
2nd hot water tank usually last about 15 years and are much cheaper I would say about $500 for a 60 gal .

a 50 gal electric Rheem costs me $562.00 at Home Depot plus tax. It’s getting crazy

 

[hdtvkeith]

Don't ask me what I paid to have plumber come do a 50 gallon AO Smith. Once I re-pipe it will be easier next time for me to do it myself.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Don't ask me what I paid to have plumber come do a 50 gallon AO Smith. Once I re-pipe it will be easier next time for me to do it myself.

I just quoted a customer $1200 to install a 50 gal Rheem and replace the existing pan in a garage. It’s installed 18” above the garage floor in a closet without a door.

I’ll have $650 in parts and $550 in labor. From the time I leave my office until I get handed a check will take 2.5 hrs. That’s taking my time.

 

[hdtvkeith]

I just quoted a customer $1200 to install a 50 gal Rheem and replace the existing pan in a garage. It’s installed 18” above the garage floor in a closet without a door.

I’ll have $650 in parts and $550 in labor. From the time I leave my office until I get handed a check will take 2.5 hrs. That’s taking my time.

Plumbers in ATL are quoting $1500+ to supply and install a AO Smith or Bradford White 50 gallon gas unit. Considering I drain the tank before they arrive they are n and out in under an hour.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Plumbers in ATL are quoting $1500+ to supply and install a AO Smith or Bradford White 50 gallon gas unit. Considering I drain the tank before they arrive they are n and out in under an hour.

Yeah, ATL prices are always higher than around my area. Cost of living is much higher in ATL