Slab Leak - Long Post, sorry

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kjwalker01

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On November 17, I noticed a saturated portion of the carpet in a downstairs bedroom. I pulled the carpet back, and noticed the water was coming from under the baseboard of a common wall between the bedroom and bathroom. I called a plumber who came out, cut a hole in the drywall, and found the water was seeping up through the slab around the hot water pipe to the bathroom faucet. There was no mold in the wall, nor any other sign that this had been an issue for long. The water was clean and odorless, and there were no signs of sand, so it didn’t appear to be groundwater. (Though, we had received 4-5 inches of rain the past evening).

The plumber did a pressure test on the line to about 65psi, but could not get a pressure drop. He also tried listening equipment, but could not locate the leak. He said that the owner of the plumbing company would come out the next day, which he did. The owner was finally able to get a slight pressure drop after increasing the pressure to about 120psi, but was also unable to locate the leak using the listening equipment. He said that he thought he leak was close to the surface and suggested that they jackhammer into the foundation, which I reluctantly agreed to.

Later that evening, the leak completely stopped, so I cancelled the appt to jackhammer and scheduled a service call with another plumber that had been referred. The leak started up again after about 3 days, and when the new plumber came out a few days after that, he was also unable to detect the leak location. The insurance company agreed that the leak needs to be found and said that exploring via jackhammer is part of the claim, so he came out about 5 days later and starting drilling and jackhammering.

First, he found the slab to be abnormally thick and was never able to find an edge or penetrate through. He jackhammered a small area, about 1’x1’ wide and about 3-4 inches deep, completely exposing the hot water line around all sides. At that the point the leak stopped again (I suspect from concrete dust falling into the sleeved area around the pipe). About 5 days after that, a wet spot appeared on the floor of the hole, but at no time has there been standing water. The spot grows when water is being used in the house, and then dries up fairly quickly. One day, the size of the spot was much larger than other days, even though the water usage in the house has been consistent, but the next day, the spot had almost completely dried and didn’t reappear until about 8 hours after the last time water had been run.
Here are a couple of (possibly relevant) notes:

- It’s hard to estimate the amount of water seeping, but if I had to take a wild guess, at most it’s about an ounce per hour, sometimes less.
- Before the jackhammering, I could visually see the water seeping. Now, the floor just gets damp.
- It’s a two-story house, and this is (I believe) the first place the hot-water line comes up through the foundation. Thanks to our wonderful city codes, the two hot water heaters are in the attic.

I’m at a loss for what to do next and am open to suggestions. Leak location is covered by insurance, so if we need to jackhammer more, I’m open to it. It’s been a month and I’m ready to be done with this
 
I have a lot of experience with slab leaks and that seems unusual. I would never open the floor unless I am absolutely sure you have a slab leak. Occasionally I had a leak seal it self while pressure testing and did not leak for 2 weeks.
Seems to show when you use water would indicate an intermittent leak possibly from a drain. add some dye to a fixture or 2 and see if the water shows up colored.
 
http://screencast.com/t/jLErGUaYp

the small dial on the meter,registers any use.

you need a listening device leak detector, it is like the one the dr uses.

you could very well have a leak in the wall, that is leaking into the concrete sleeve. and not showing up above ground.

i suggest, you hire a plumbing co, who specialises in slab leaks.

I spent 2, 9 hour days at a clients house. before i found the leak.

crawling around on my hands and knees, listening
 
We live in the Dallas, TX area. Here are a couple of pictures, one from the day after the slab was opened, and one from this morning. I suspect by the end of the day, most of the dampness will have dried.

2015-12-02 07.05.47.jpg

2015-12-11 07.33.34.jpg

Here are a couple of answers to the questions above:

- I have checked the meter, and am not seeing any movement of the low-flow meter (red triangle on mine).

- Both plumbers used the listening device you mentioned (stethoscope and whatever those metal "cups" are called)

- If from a drain, which I thought of, why would it be coming up around the hot water supply? I'm just asking, as, like Frodo pointed out, I speak Home Depot. And when it comes to plumbing, that's probably being too kind.
 
where is the drain pipe as it enters the concrete in relation to this hole.

has any one checked the pvc pipe for a nail hole or a crack at floor level?

i have seen nails in pipes, that did not leak for years, then, the nail rusts into 5 years down the road

you all of a sudden have a leak
 
where is the drain pipe as it enters the concrete in relation to this hole.

has any one checked the pvc pipe for a nail hole or a crack at floor level?

i have seen nails in pipes, that did not leak for years, then, the nail rusts into 5 years down the road

you all of a sudden have a leak

I'm not sure where the drain is, to be honest, and am not home to look. Here is a picture from the first day of the leak that may show you what you need. The PVC to the left is the toilet, but I'm not sure where that sink drains. Possibly connects to that PVC above the drywall cut?

2015-11-17 11.44.23.jpg
 

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when you get home, pull that base board off. you will have to later to patch the drywall anyway

take the sheet rock off that is under it.

IMPORTANT....as you are taking the base board off. be watchfull if ANY nails/staples are are holding the base board on and going into a pipe

check, that sheet rock nails are not penetrating pvc pipe or copper

look in the wall down at concrete level for a framing nail

have you verified the wax ring on the toilet is not leaking
 
I wasn't able to do the baseboard this weekend, but I do have a picture of the inside of the wall from before I moved the camera:

2015-12-14 10.50.10.jpg

According to the last plumber, the wax ring seems to be fine. I looked in the wall and didn't see any nail penetrations.

We have noticed that water pools a lot more when running the washing machine, which is about 10 feet away and (I believe) the next stop in the hot water supply loop. What I'm not understanding is why running the washing machine makes any difference. Isn't the supply line under constant pressure?
 
We have noticed that water pools a lot more when running the washing machine, which is about 10 feet away and (I believe) the next stop in the hot water supply loop. What I'm not understanding is why running the washing machine makes any difference. Isn't the supply line under constant pressure?

Weird! But It could be such a small leak that when the line heats up it expands a bit causing it to leak more.

If you are pretty sure the water is coming out of the sleeve then have your plumber locate the other ends of both loops. Cut and cap the line that is going away from the 2 in the wall so you still have water to the remaining loop.

cut an cap the other end or add a fitting so you can test that line individually.
Charge it with 100+ psi air or CO2.

I sometime separate the 2 lines. install a couple of angle stops on each line.
That way I can temporarily reconnect them with a supply line. if it is a slab leak you can temporarily control the leak until you can locate or reroute the line.
 
We have noticed that water pools a lot more when running the washing machine, which is about 10 feet away and (I believe) the next stop in the hot water supply loop.


if it leaks when the washer is on

the problem is at the washer

is it a water leak or drain leak...narrow it down

pull the washer out of the hole. using a garden hose connect the water

and use a pipe to drain out to the yard.

run it, while watching it.

also, cut behind the washer, check the water pipe and drain for leaks
 
I haven't posted any updates, as the leak stopped a couple of weeks ago, and hasn't come back. I went to shut off the valve for the toilet behind that wall and found that it needed to be replaced. While they were doing that, the leak was at it's worst, but in the process of hunting it down, it stopped. It's now been 2 weeks.

I guess that might suggest the valve, but I can't see how that's possible. There's no water inside the wall, and the supply line just T's off of the cold water line. If you look at the picture from post #6, the cold water line is on the right and the valve is just behind the power outlet. The line runs about an inch above the drywall cutout.

I guess I'll just wait it out until it shows up again.
 

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