Shower valves and head on different walls?

[AJay]

Going to open a new thread on this one even though its the same project.. just a different chapter.

My "better half" wants to have the shower installed so that the valves/knobs for the shower are on one wall and the head on another. AND rather than a shower "door" (sliding or swinging) just a single glass screen.

Kinda like this

I can see a lot of problems with this, mainly routing the water to the shower head thru the wall and around the corner thru several 2x4's. Thought of going up and then come down thru ceiling, or even up and over and down into wall.

But then how much insulation is needed as it will be in the attic.

I assume the longer it goes the longer it will drip when shut off.

Are there any codes that say "you can't do that!"??

 

[Hyper48fan]

As long as you can adjust the temp and volume without getting sprayed and the spray is not directed at the entrance to the shower the locations will be fine. As far as routing the supply to the shower head, structural conditions usually dictate the route. If you did go into the attic space then down, I would use Wirsbo and not have any joints in the attic space, and I would keep the pipe within the insulated portion of the space.

 

[havasu]

I'm paying close attention to this thread, as it is exactly what I'm about ready to do, except that there will be no glass, just tile all the way up, and considered to be a "walk in" shower.

 

[phishfood]

I have installed showers with valves and heads on different walls many times. Use as few fittings as possible between the valve and the showerhead, and if you run it through the attic, make sure that it cannot freeze. The restrictors in showerheads can cause water to remain in the piping to the showerhead, which would be a freeze hazard in your area.

 

[AJay]

... I would use Wirsbo and not have any joints in the attic space, and I would keep the pipe within the insulated portion of the space.

That PEX stuff looks pretty cool, but the price for that tool certainly doesn't.

I was thinking that if I have to route thru several 2x4's in the corner to make the hole large enough and use one of them "shark bite" fittings with CPVC, then pray it doesn't leak.

 

[havasu]

I would never use a "Shark Bite" fitting unless in was easily accessable and able to be inspected for future leaks.

 

[AJay]

There is also another quandary involving the placement of this shower.
Due to door position and HVAC vent in floor we are putting it in a certain corner and it turns out the drain for Redi-Tile shower base (which has the drain as part of the entire unit) is going to hit a joist.

So I'm thinking of just going the homemade shower base route so I can place the drain a bit off center if we keep it on that side of the room.

The other side would allow for more room but the HVAC duct is in the floor and in the way. So I either remove the duct (or move it... letting it go up the wall and making the wall thicker)... or we put the shower on the other side where it will end up being smaller.

 

[AJay]

I would never use a "Shark Bite" fitting unless in was easily accessable and able to be inspected for future leaks.

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[AJay]

I have installed showers with valves and heads on different walls many times. Use as few fittings as possible between the valve and the showerhead, and if you run it through the attic, make sure that it cannot freeze. The restrictors in showerheads can cause water to remain in the piping to the showerhead, which would be a freeze hazard in your area.

Getting ready to rough in the shower valve and am still planning on putting shower head on different wall than the valve.

Even though I am planning to add an extra layer of 2x4 (laid flat) because of vent ducting on the wall, I still don't like the idea of trying to stick a 90 deg elbow in the corner as I'm afraid getting to it in the future would be a pain, if necessary.

So up thru the attic seems to be the best option but PEX is not allowed and I am wondering just how much insulation would be enough to keep it from freezing. Or would thru the wall and thru that corner be a better option.

 

[johnjh2o]

Insulation doesn't create heat. If you run it through the attic keep the pipe exposed to the ceiling below (were the warmer temperatures will be) an put lots of insulation over it. Even at that depending on your climate you would be far better off running it below. But don't use shark bites.

John

 

[CHRISM]

Quote from Ajay:

`So up thru the attic seems to be the best option but PEX is not allowed and I am wondering just how much insulation would be enough to keep it from freezing`


"Hello Ajay",

The other Members may not be answering your Question about Pipe Insulation either because they don`t want to suggest something that may result in the Pipe Freezing and causing Damage - Or because it is always preferable to NOT route Pipework in a Roof Space if there is an alternative - because of the Risk of Freezing.

For Domestic purposes about the Best Pipe Insulation that you can purchase is Armaflex Pipe Insulation - I am sure that it is sold in the U.S. - but you may have to Order it from a Plumbing Supplies Merchant - the Joints must be Glued and Armaflex supply a specialised Adhesive for this.

Depending upon the lowest Temperatures that may be present within the Roof Space in Cold Weather - Armaflex Pipe Insulation with a WALL Thickness of 25mm will protect the Pipe from Freezing to a Temperature of Minus 20 Degrees Celsius - By Design / Theoretically.

The Specification Information online may state a lower Temperature than that but I would NOT use it for VERY Low Temperatures - I would NOT allow the Pipework to be Installed just `Protected` by Pipe Insulation at Very Low Temperatures - it would just be `Asking for Trouble` !

IF there is Ever likely to be a Temperature of anything like that in your Roof Space I would STRONGLY Advise that You do NOT Install the Pipework up there.

When contemplating whether to take the `Into the Roof Space` route You should ensure that there will be NO Ventilation Openings etc. nearby that could introduce a `Wind Chill` to the Pipe in certain Wind conditions.

If you are using a 22mm Pipe / 3/4" - The Pipe Insulation would measure the Diameter of the Pipe Plus 2 X 25mm / 1" Wall Thicknesses - So a 3/4" Pipe would have an Insulation Diameter of 2 3/4" [ 22mm Pipe = Insulation Diameter of 72mm]

Because of the Wall Thickness of the Pipe Insulation the Clipping of Pipes has to be carried out to accommodate the Wall Thickness of the Insulation - So if just the fixing point has to be considered you must use Clip Spacers to put the Pipe Insulation Clear of the Joist / Wall.

Armaflex should be applied to the Pipe with Mitred Joints to Elbows and ALL Joints must be Glued with Armaflex Adhesive - The Pipe Insulation must be applied without ANY Gaps etc. and special care must be taken where Pipes are Clipped to Joists / Walls - the Pipe Insulation must cover the Clip area also - or these would be `Weak Points` in the Insulation of the Pipe.

Correctly Insulating Pipework can be awkward when it is crucial that Mitres are Tight and all Joints are Glued - covering the Clip areas can also be awkward - depending of course on how much experience you have fitting Pipe Insulation.

I mention this only because other Plumbers would probably consider Insulating Pipes as an `Easy Job` - I have often seen Pipes Insulated in a `Less than Effective` way - By `Plumbers`.


Here is a Link to a website where details of Armaflex can be found:

AP Armaflex Pipe Insulation

Even using this 1" / 25mm Wall Thickness Pipe Insulation it would still be a Good Idea to Overlay the Blanket Loft Insulation over the Pipe / Pipe Insulation - as johnjh2o advised.


CHRISM