Repair of partially collapsed sewer main

[nwoodard34]

Hey all, this is not a DIY project (for me anyway) but I did want to throw it out there to you guys that are way smarter than me about this kind of stuff so I can make sure I manage the project correctly.

House is built in 1963 and has what looks to be cast iron pipe.

We bought the house in November and started having backup problems in the basement bathroom and outside drain (which is connected to sanitary sewer) in February. After a couple of snakings that only solved the problem for a couple of days at a time, we had it hydrojetted and the guy ran the camera through:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug0JzE-zEJU&feature=youtu.be"] Video 1 - February[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0arxjTQtOJs&feature=youtu.be"] Video 2 - April [/ame]

As you can see at the 35 feet mark in the first video, the drain is partially collapsed. Signal locator showed it is right under the foundation wall. Got a quote to fix it from the inside (busting up concrete in the basement) that was for either $2,500 or $3,500 (the guy had a very thick accent) but regardless it wasn't in the budget at the time to fix, so we rolled the dice to see if a good cleaning after 50+ years of grease and hair would solve the problem. 2 months later, last week, we had the same problem so it is time to address it.

My questions are:

1. Are my options to repair it from inside or outside? Outside repair would require about 4.5 - 5 feet of digging since the basement is below grade, but it is my preferred option since that half of my basement is a converted studio and is rented right now so I would prefer not to disturb his life (and my reviews/rental business).

I also don't have any hardscaping or landscaping that would be disturbed from an outside dig except for a mulch bed and some dead bushes/flowers that need to get removed anyway.

2. Any huge benefit of one over the other as far as the repair itself goes?

3. Should I go ahead and have the pipe replaced from the foundation out to the city tie-in while I am at it due to age, or can this be explained from the house settling on top of it?

4. Is a sewer main warranty an option here? They have a 30 day seasoning period and I should be good for that since I was for the past 60 days between jettings but would need to look into their view on pre-existing conditions and if the foundation wall is considered "inside" (which isn't covered) our "outside" (which is).

Really appreciate your thoughts and advice.

 

[Mr_David]

I would dig it up from the outside first. If it's under the wall you may have to dig both sides. Start with the outside. Digging! That's all labor. Dig it yourself & save some money. If that's 4 ft just to the pipe, you're gonna have to go deeper to Tunnel under. That deep you're going to want to make a wider hole and slip some sheets of plywood in to shore it up.
You don't want to get buried alive.

 

[nwoodard34]

I would dig it up from the outside first. If it's under the wall you may have to dig both sides. Start with the outside. Digging! That's all labor. Dig it yourself & save some money. If that's 4 ft just to the pipe, you're gonna have to go deeper to Tunnel under. That deep you're going to want to make a wider hole and slip some sheets of plywood in to shore it up.
You don't want to get buried alive.

Thanks for the advice and depending on the quotes I get I may or may not dig it myself.

Where I am stuck is I posted this on a couple of different forums and have different opinions on what people are seeing on the video. One guy is claiming that there is no way cast iron pipe "partially collapses". So I have no idea what he is seeing on the video at that 1:18 mark that would account for the narrowing.

Another guy suggested that 1:18 mark on the video is a 45 degree bend which I am not so sure about. He thinks the pipes look good and clean, but there is obviously a problem.

I dln't know what my next step is. Do I need to get a plumber to come with another camera to diagnose it? What else could it be that is clogging it other than a collapsed pipe?

 

[Mr_David]

is what I'm seeing in 1st video at 1:15 @ -35 ft the same as what I see in the 2nd video after it was jetted? As the camera was backing out in 1st video, lit looked like you had water flowing and it even went under water for a few feet before you got to problem.

Look at this thread. similar problem but water flow is reversed.

http://www.plumbingforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7333


the 2 sections of pipe shifted with the down stream section lower than the upstream pipe.

 

[nwoodard34]

is what I'm seeing in 1st video at 1:15 @ -35 ft the same as what I see in the 2nd video after it was jetted? As the camera was backing out in 1st video, lit looked like you had water flowing and it even went under water for a few feet before you got to problem.

Look at this thread. similar problem but water flow is reversed.

http://www.plumbingforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7333


the 2 sections of pipe shifted with the down stream section lower than the upstream pipe.

Yes, you are correct. They are the same location, the first one from February and the second one from April. Both after he had cleaned the pipes.

The first video he starts at the street tie-in, and brings it back through the house (he was on the roof through my vent stack). The -35 mark corresponded right to the foundation wall when he put the pinger in it.

Yes water was flowing, but I'm not sure why it looks like it stops flowing once he gets on the house side of the issue. That is kind of strange.

 

[nwoodard34]

Here is another video that I didn't upload initially because I didn't think the quality was very good. It is also from the April cleanout.

Even though it is really low res, it does seem to keep the camera steady when it goes over the point of interest at the 1:05 mark in the video. Am I wrong in thinking that it looks like a 1 foot or so "belly", which is why you can see the water, then it disappear, and reappears again? Or is that something else?

Video 3

 

[Mr_David]

Just before it makes the bump, you can see a ring.
Could be another joint in the pipe.
This is what I see.

 

[nwoodard34]

Just before it makes the bump, you can see a ring.
Could be another joint in the pipe.
This is what I see.

Thank you very much sir! Yeah I agree that's what it looks like to my untrained eye as well. Probably due to the house settling onto that section of the pipe and collapsing the joints.

One plumber (or a field supervisor really) came out today to take a look. I showed him the videos and he thinks there might be a belly there as well. His recommendation, which I thought was solid, was to start by installing a cleanout in the garden right in front of the foundation area of interest, and diagnose from there once it was dug up. He ball parked me about $650 to install the cleanout, which I thought was very reasonable.

Got a call back a few minutes later after I guess he had spoken to someone actually doing the work and the actual quote was $3450 because of "permits" lol I don't know if the guy was just out to lunch at first or what, but that actual quote sounded a bit too high for my liking. May dig it out myself for that and see what I can find.

 

[Mr_David]

Take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a day to dig it down 5ft Unless you have a lot of rock and/or roots to contend with. Bids can be high. They figure in worst case scenarios. once you get down to it, you might be close enough to just tunnel under a little bid and fix it. Install a 2 way Double clean out so you can go both ways.

Take pictures and post up what you find

 

[nwoodard34]

Take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a day to dig it down 5ft Unless you have a lot of rock and/or roots to contend with. Bids can be high. They figure in worst case scenarios. once you get down to it, you might be close enough to just tunnel under a little bid and fix it. Install a 2 way Double clean out so you can go both ways.

Take pictures and post up what you find

Solid advice my man! I really appreciate your help in this thread. I will bookmark it and come back and update whenever I decide to do anything with the pipe!

 

[Chris]

Like Mr. David says I would dig down myself and take a look or even hire a guy for the day just to dig for you if you are trying to save money. The quotes don't seem all that unreasonable but you can do it yourself for much less. And like said I would work from the outside, no sense in breaking up a basement just to save a little on digging.