Old-style bathroom fixture leaking badly

[Raven8]

So I moved into a nearly 100 year old house at the end of June, and noticed a small problem with the bathtub; the hot-water nob needed to be tightened very hard to get it to turn off entirely. This wasn't really an issue, but as time went on I had to turn harder and hard, and eventually it would leak even if not turned off all the way. Then, about a week ago, it started just pouring like it was about 1/4 of the way on no matter what I do, and now I have to shut down the hot water in the basement to shut it down.

Called a plumber last week, and after an immense amount of issues there, they told me that everything needs to be replaced and that it will cost over $1000. Wow. Well, I've since learned that this plumber has a reputation for gouging people with elaborate setups where simpler fixes work, so I figured I'd try to learn a thing or two about this. So here I am!

Here are some images of my setup:

Yes, it is quite old. Two knobs (with screws off to the side to hold the knob itself on), one drain-control knob in the center (which doesn't work well, but that's not a huge deal), one little/old faucet, and then a single-handle control shower up above. The last image is of the access behind it just to give more context.

Does anyone have any advice for this setup, or at least know what this is called so that I can look it up? $1000 for this issue really seems exorbitant, and is more than a bit out of my budget.

Thanks much in advance for any advice or direction!

 

[johnjh2o]

Remove the stems and replace the washers no big deal.

 

[havasu]

Shouldn't he also replace the seats as well?

 

[Raven8]

waitwut? The guys here said that the parts for this thing were antiques and that they couldn't get them. Is it REALLY that easy?

 

[johnjh2o]

Faucet washers are the same as they are today. Seats may not be as easy to find.

 

[havasu]

I guess you could grind and polish the seats, which should give another 100 years.

 

[frodo]

here is the deal with your tub. if i am not mistaken, the filler spout for the tub is below the flood level rim.

that is a problem.

in my area of the blue ball, by code, i can fix your existing illegal plumbing. but i must bringing it up to code .

your tub spout is below the flood level rim, that is a fancy term we use to scare the crap out of people and make "mo money"



to bring your tub up to code, will require a new tub and faucet,

the tub, appears not to have an overflow.

so the tub has gotta go and the faucet.

BUTT>>>>depending on where you live, AND if your local plumbing inspector is a Butt hole or a fairly decent guy

You can apply for a variance.

Another fancy word.

means he can look the other way, since it is an antique, historically correct, architecturally cool

copy of mean ole code [for my area] i dont know where you are




I think the whole set up is rather cool, If it was mine, I would be down town talking to the inspector about issuing a variance.

THEN...a plumber could "JUST" replace washers/grind seats and not have to worry about bring the whole thing up to code

 

[Caduceus]

"Additions, alterations or repairs shall not cause and existing system to become unsafe, insanitary or overloaded." needs to be properly interpreted.
In this situation, the repair is not causing the existing system to become unsafe. By design and compared to modern codes it may be considered unsafe because of spout location, but it is not being altered, no additions are being made and the repair does not create the unsafe condition. Returning it to normal operation is not considered creating anything new.
This section is commonly misinterpreted. If I were inspecting it I would require the spout to be brought up to code if the tub was replaced or if the two handle valve body was replaced. That would be a fair interpretation as well as justification for enforcement.
To say otherwise would validate throwing away any older toilets that are not code compliant simply because the flapper is bad. Could you also imagine if you went to a customer's house and changed the cartridge/stem on a two or three handle tub and then had to enforce adding a tempering valve to the hot supply...on EVERY repair? A line of reason always has to be drawn, but some inspectors still have a hard time seeing it.

 

[Mr_David]

I guess you could grind and polish the seats, which should give another 100 years.

A fixture that old probably does not have replaceable seats.
If there is enough of the seat left to grind, might just get a few more years out of it.

Most plumbers these days don't know how to grind a seat.

A lot of them will just rip out the old and install new valves.
I have a seat grinder but I haven't used that thing in maybe 20yrs.

I would try to use it on that just to save the uniqueness of that old thing with no guarantee that It would be successful.

 

[KULTULZ]

Is there available a retrofit anti-siphon vacuum breaker valve available for an application such as this?

 

[KULTULZ]

Is there available a retrofit anti-siphon vacuum breaker valve available for an application such as this?

Can a valve such as below-

Vacuum Breaker Part Vacuum Breaker, Assembly Kit

INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE CHICAGO FAUCET COMPANY 892-1/2” and 893-3/8” VACUUM BREAKERS

PURPOSE:

THIS ANGLE TYPE VALVE IS DESIGNED TO PREVENT BACK-SIPHONAGE OF CONTAMINATED WATER INTO A RELIABLE WATER SUPPLY. THIS TYPE IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE UNDER CONTINUOUS PRESSURE AND DESIGNED TO PROVIDE BACKFLOW PROTECTION DUE TO BACK PRESSURE, EVEN THOUGH A CHECK VALVE MAY BE PRESENT.

APPLICATIONS:

THE 892 AND 893 ATMOSPHERIC VACUUM BREAKERS SHOULD BE INSTALLED ON EVERY OUTLET WHERE A HOSE CAN BE ATTACHED. MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE IS 212°F AT 125 lbs. WORKING PRESSURE. AS COLD WATER DEVICE APPLICATION RANGE 33°F up to 110°F AND AS HOT WATER DEVICE ABOVE 110° F.

INSTALLATION:

ATMOSPHERIC VACUUM BREAKERS MUST BE INSTALLED BETWEEN THE DISCHARGE SIDE OF THE CONTROL
VALVE OF THE FIXTURE AND THE OUTLET. FOR PROPER OPERATION THERE MUST BE NO VALVE BETWEEN THE VACUUM BREAKER AND THE OUTLET. ATMOSPHERIC VACUUM BREAKERS SHOULD BE LOCATED NOT LESS THAN SIX INCHES ABOVE FLOOD RIM OR OVERFLOW. THE FITTING SHOULD BE LOCATED WHERE IT CAN BE INSPECTED AND SERVICED AND WHERE A MOMENTARY SPILL OF WATER FROM AIR INLET WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM.

STANDARDS:

TESTED AND CERTIFIED UNDER ASSE / ANSI STANDARD 1001 FOR PIPE APPLIED ATMOSPHERIC TYPE VACUUMBREAKERS. MEETS OR EXCEEDS C.S.A. STANDARD B64, ANSI A112.18.1, CSAB125, AND ASSE 1001 COMPLIANT.

- be plumbed into the supply (behind the wall) to have the spout comply with present code?

Could the same principal be applied to the previously discussed vintage pedestal sink install with no air gap (shown below)?

Inquiring minds would like to know...

EDIT-

...or...

A valve type as shown below (Valve- Anti Siphon Vacuum Breaker - WATTS LF288A 1/2in) plumbed into the supply behind the wall (accessible for service).

 

[Mr_David]

Can a valve such as below-

Vacuum Breaker Part Vacuum Breaker, Assembly Kit

- be plumbed into the supply (behind the wall) to have the spout comply with present code?

Could the same principal be applied to the previously discussed vintage pedestal sink install with no air gap (shown below)?

Inquiring minds would like to know...

I would think the vacuum breaker would have to be installed above the flood rim like a dishwasher air gap.

You have a picture of the hardware behind the sink?

 

[Mr_David]

why would you want to retro that thing in?
Would seem kind of unsanitary the way it was designed.
The overflow being just under the spout. :eek
The fog of eternal stink would always me near the water outlet.
Would you use that to brush your teeth?

 

[phishfood]

I would have to look it up, but I THINK a dual check on both hot and cold would suffice.

 

[phishfood]

Just looked it up, IPC requires an air gap for a lavatory.

 

[KULTULZ]

I would think the vacuum breaker would have to be installed above the flood rim like a dishwasher air gap.

You have a picture of the hardware behind the sink?

VACUUM BREAKERS SHOULD BE LOCATED NOT LESS THAN SIX INCHES ABOVE FLOOD RIM OR OVERFLOW. THE FITTING SHOULD BE LOCATED WHERE IT CAN BE INSPECTED AND SERVICED

This question is referring to the vintage bathtub at the beginning of this thread-

The lavatory shown was from a post several weeks ago with the same affliction, i.e. lack of air gap. My thinking... ... is the practicability of plumbing in vintage fixtures to meet modern code.

With the remote air gap installed (remote but accessible), could the fixture(s) be within modern code?

 

[KULTULZ]

why would you want to retro that thing in?

Well, either for appearance or vintage restoration.

Would seem kind of unsanitary the way it was designed.

The overflow being just under the spout. :eek

The fog of eternal stink would always me near the water outlet. Would you use that to brush your teeth?

I would frequently douche the overflow with chlorine as with any overflow to prevent bacteria buildup.