New radiator not working, please help

[Yardley]

Hello, we recently had the bathroom renovated in our 100+ year old house and had a new water baseboard heater installed. Yesterday we turned on the heat for the first time ever since moving in and since the renovation, and the bathroom heater is not working. The other original heaters on the third flood where the bathroom is located are working fine. I did some reading where it was suggested that one bleed the heater, however I see no valve anywhere on the new baseboard heater. I should also mention that I went to the second floor and tested the exposed pipe that feeds the bathroom radiator on the third floor, and it only warms up at the very bottom, the top is cold. Please help!

 

[johnjh2o]

You need to have some type of vent to remove the air from the baseboard or it will not heat. What type baseboard is it? Copper fin or cast iron? A picture would be of great help. Do you have heat in the other third floor rooms?

John

 

[Yardley]

You need to have some type of vent to remove the air from the baseboard or it will not heat. What type baseboard is it? Copper fin or cast iron? A picture would be of great help. Do you have heat in the other third floor rooms?

John

Hi John, thanks for the reply. I have heat in the other third floor rooms and throughout the rest of the house, the bathroom is the only problem. The heater that was installed is a new unit much like the this one

http://www.homeadditionplus.com/images/home_pics/Hydronic_Baseboard_Heater.jpg

 

[LiQuId]

it is more important to know the type of pipe inside the cabinet. This looks to be copper likely.

take a picture of the inside of this cabinet, there should be a bleeder valve ( coin vent ) inside this cabinet on one of the sides, what you have is an Air lock.

 

[Yardley]

it is more important to know the type of pipe inside the cabinet. This looks to be copper likely.

take a picture of the inside of this cabinet, there should be a bleeder valve ( coin vent ) inside this cabinet on one of the sides, what you have is an Air lock.

I'll take a picture but I looked inside and didn't see any valves, just the pipes going straight in at both ends, looks just like this

http://www.1897house.com/_/rsrc/1252707073119/heating/baseboard.jpg

 

[johnjh2o]

Did you check on the ends of the PEX piping where it comes up frome the basement. That would be the high point where the vent should be.

John

 

[LiQuId]

check as john has said. If not then It is fairly easy for you to Cut in a T and put a Coin vent on it ( in the pex.. use crimp fittings ) Make sure you turn the supply water off.

I would also Suggest Putting a Full port isolation valve on both ends of the radiator ( put the con vent between these ) then if in future you need to service this it is easy )

 

[Yardley]

Hi guys, I took a bunch of pictures and uploaded them to photobucket at the link below. You can zoom in on them there or if needed I can provide larger versions. Hope these can help you help me haha. Thanks a lot!

heater pictures by crortega9 - Photobucket

 

[LiQuId]

Wow.... There are a few things that make me cringe a little on these pictures.

The black iron with galvanized to copper connections will deteriorate due to elecrolysis in time firstly.

The issue with the radiator is that it has become air trapped, there SHOULD be a t where there is a 90 and there SHOULD be a valve on top of said T to bleed off the air, a pump pumping a liquid against this air pocket will compress the air and eventually not have the strength ( head ) to overcome it. Simply put, the air cannot escape and so the radiator will remain cold.

are you compitent ( not intending to offend ) to soldier?

 

[johnjh2o]

I am now totally confused. The last picture you posted the baseboard was piped with PEX. The pictures of the baseboard you just posted are piped with copper. Are you having problems with more then one section?

John

 

[Yardley]

I am now totally confused. The last picture you posted the baseboard was piped with PEX. The pictures of the baseboard you just posted are piped with copper. Are you having problems with more then one section?

John

Hi John, the last picture of the baseboard was just an example I found online, the ones I posted today are of my actual radiator.

 

[Yardley]

Wow.... There are a few things that make me cringe a little on these pictures.

The black iron with galvanized to copper connections will deteriorate due to elecrolysis in time firstly.

The issue with the radiator is that it has become air trapped, there SHOULD be a t where there is a 90 and there SHOULD be a valve on top of said T to bleed off the air, a pump pumping a liquid against this air pocket will compress the air and eventually not have the strength ( head ) to overcome it. Simply put, the air cannot escape and so the radiator will remain cold.

are you compitent ( not intending to offend ) to soldier?

Not really, but I can get the guy who installed it to do it once I prove to him that it needs to be done.

 

[Yardley]

So there is no way to solve this issue without installing valves on the bathroom radiator? Can someone explain what all the valves in the pictures are for? I don't even know if I have a multiple zone system, although I'm guessing it's only one zone since I only have one thermostat. How should I go about bleeding all the radiators? Like what do I need to shut off before doing so? I just want to have everything ready to go since winter is approaching.

 

[Yardley]

By the way I would have no problem having a professional come in but this is our first home and we just purchased it and have spent so much money on everything and we're really broke by now, ha.

 

[johnjh2o]

There is probably a way to purge the system to remove the air. But with the little piping I can see around the boiler I can't instruct you how to do it. From what I can see it looks like a split loop system. What I need to see is where the loop splits on both the feed and return. If you follow the mains out from the boiler there should be a tee that splits the main into two smaller lines. This will happen on both the feed and return. I need photos of both of these locations.

John

 

[LiQuId]

When I install a radiator, or multiple radiators I put a bleed valve on any radiator at the top of the system or at any high points. this way any air that is trapped in a pocket can be removed.

Simply enough, You need to close the supply and return valves ( in boiler room ) and then pipe in a means of removing the air to the trapped points ( often these type of Bleeder valves are referred to as Coin vents ) then with the Valve open ( to allow air out ) you slowly fill the system untill water starts to spit out of the coin vent.

lets pretend for example that your radiator in question IS your entire heating system.

Water enters at one end ( very hot ) and leaves at the other ( less hot due to losing heat to heat the enviornment.) now, imagine a valve at each end, if you close them both the system is isolated. now you would open the coin vent ( between both isolation valves ) to open the isolated part of the system and you would slightly open the supply side valve, since the water cannot complete the loop and exit the radiator it fills the radiator and the air ( that WAS trapped inside ) is displaced by the water and exits out of the coin vent. When you see water coming out you close the vent and then open fully both the supply and return valves and the water is free to flow with no airlock.

Does this make sense ?

 

[Yardley]

When I install a radiator, or multiple radiators I put a bleed valve on any radiator at the top of the system or at any high points. this way any air that is trapped in a pocket can be removed.

Simply enough, You need to close the supply and return valves ( in boiler room ) and then pipe in a means of removing the air to the trapped points ( often these type of Bleeder valves are referred to as Coin vents ) then with the Valve open ( to allow air out ) you slowly fill the system untill water starts to spit out of the coin vent.

lets pretend for example that your radiator in question IS your entire heating system.

Water enters at one end ( very hot ) and leaves at the other ( less hot due to losing heat to heat the enviornment.) now, imagine a valve at each end, if you close them both the system is isolated. now you would open the coin vent ( between both isolation valves ) to open the isolated part of the system and you would slightly open the supply side valve, since the water cannot complete the loop and exit the radiator it fills the radiator and the air ( that WAS trapped inside ) is displaced by the water and exits out of the coin vent. When you see water coming out you close the vent and then open fully both the supply and return valves and the water is free to flow with no airlock.

Does this make sense ?

Yeah it kinda make sense, but in the pictures can you tell which is the return valve and supply valve? So you're saying I should close both of these in the boiler room and bleed the radiator? (if it had a bleed valve) Also, if I just go around the entire house and bleed every radiator, should the whole system be off as well as the return and supply valves. Man, this is complicated.

 

[Yardley]

There is probably a way to purge the system to remove the air. But with the little piping I can see around the boiler I can't instruct you how to do it. From what I can see it looks like a split loop system. What I need to see is where the loop splits on both the feed and return. If you follow the mains out from the boiler there should be a tee that splits the main into two smaller lines. This will happen on both the feed and return. I need photos of both of these locations.

John

I'll take more pictures.

 

[LiQuId]

if you were to bleed the whole system, you should only need to bleed it from high oints in the system ( where the air will go or be trapped.

what you would do if you dont have valves on the radiators is close all the valves both return and supply and open the coin vent ( once installed ) and then open the supply slightly to fill the system, this is easyer done with help from a friend who can yell to you when water starts spitting out or even easyer still to install a auto air vent in the high points in the line, this vent works with a float so that if air enters the chamber it is autimatically purged and seals when there is water and pressure present.

You may do well to have a plumber in to solve this for you, I am doing a TON of this very kind of work right now as heating season starts, a job like the one you have ( only one radiator I am assuming ) takes an hour tops and varies by price depending on where you are umong other factors but should be fairly cheap.

this is a trapped part of the system, i can tell this by the fact that the pipes are 90 ing down into the floor so I doubt you have many options other than to install an air vent but occasionaly ( very occasionally ) of the drop of the pipe is not too great an air pocket can be pushed through a rad. by throttleing the valves ( turning on and off quickly ) though, as I said, I doubt this will work in your particular situation.