New Drain and Overflow assembly not fitting properly to new tub - Help plz

[amodoko]

Hi guys, as some of you may know I am putting in a new tub for the first time. Now I am trying to fit my new tub to a brand new drain and overflow assembly I bought from Lowe’s hardware. It is a schedule 40 PVC drain and overflow and it is the kind that has to have all its connections PVC cemented (there are no slip joint/ screw joints). I have heard these are better than the screw/slip joints, and that is why I bought it.

Anyways, my tub is 60 inches long, 30 inches wide, and 14 ¼ inches tall. The new drain and overflow did not fit the tub perfectly straight out of the box. Actually it was much longer in both directions than it needed to be. So I had to measure and shorten the PVC to make it fit the tub better. Now everything almost lines up, but the drain comes down at quite an angle on the tub shoe (as you can see in the photo below) and thus, the tub shoe does not fit perfectly to the new drain assembly. The drain assembly makes contact with one side of the tub shoe drain, but it is about ¼ inch above the other side of the tub shoe drain. This doesn’t really have to do with the length of the PVC, it has to do with the angle I believe. Is there a way to fix this so the drain assembly will sit flush with the rubber washer on the bottom of the tub? Or did I buy the wrong drain and overflow (I heard that they are all basically standard and can be adjusted to your tub, but maybe I am wrong)? Or is this gap considered normal?

The possible solutions I have thought of are: 1) Maybe a different angled washer on the overflow will work? 2) Maybe having an angled washer on the drain will help with the angled gap? 3) Try using another pvc tee 4) Or I buy a FLEXIBLE tee that has the metal clamps… although I do not know if these are safe and/or reliable to use for the tub drainage system 5) Maybe cut the overflow’s pvc pipe a tad shorter and hope that it helps. --- Those are the only solutions I can think of. I would love to use a flexible tee because it would solve the issue I think, although I don’t know if they really are safe/reliable and if they will end up rotting over time since they are probably made of some rubbery material.

To be honest, out of everything in the installation of the new tub, I am most concerned about getting the plumbing right since I don’t want any water leaks. That would be horrible to have a water leak and not be able to get to it without ripping out the tub... or digging a hole into the floor. If anyone can tell me how to get this drain assembly to sit flush with the tub shoe, I would appreciate it I am basically stuck right now and need help once again. I am super excited about everything else (tile surround, putting up cement board, etc), but this plumbing has been quite difficult for me.

Thanks in advance, I do appreciate it I know I'm a bit in over my head, but I really want to do this.

 

[johnjh2o]

It looks like the piece of PVC between the tee and the shoe is to short. What you should be doing is put the shoe on the tub first then take the measurement for that piece. The over flow should be the last piece you assemble. The gasket on the over is large and soft and will conform to the angle in the tub.

John

 

[havasu]

I was going to say if the long piece of PVC was shortened, it would fit better. I must be incorrect in my thinking because John knows alot more than I ever hoped to learn.

 

[amodoko]

Oh wow, John, you are so smart. I should have known to assemble the drain first, not the overflow. I will go buy some new PVC piping to fit my assembly then. Thanks a bunch.

 

[amodoko]

Hey guys, got a bit distracted lately due to work, but I tried working on the drain and overflow today and realized something. I have installed the drain in the tub, as you can see from the photos, but now I've run into another issue:

If I install the overflow washer on correctly (with the thick part of the washer going towards the top of the tub, and the skinny part going towards the bottom), it creates an angle of approach that causes the tee to not line up correctly with the drain. If I install the washer upside down, with the thick part pointing towards the bottom of the tub, it creates an angle at which the tee can line up perfectly with the drain.

Can I just install the washer upside down then (with the thick part pointing towards the bottom of the tub)? Are there any drawbacks to me doing that?

Does anyone know why I am having this "angle" issue? The drain/overflow kit says it fits all standard tubs (although my tub is only 14.25 inches tall, which may be the problem). Do they even make solvent weld drain/overflow kits for a tub that is 14.25 inches tall?

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it!

 

[phishfood]

I USUALLY end up putting in the washer with the fat part toward the bottom. I change that if needed to adjust the angle of the overflow pipe to meet the tee. What you are proposing to do should be just fine.

 

[johnjh2o]

If you look at the angle of the back side of the tub it should be quite obvious that the fat side of the washer go's down in order for the overflow to be plumb.

John

 

[amodoko]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice, I know this is a very basic concept but I did have some concerns about doing this part of the plumbing. As you can tell by the photos below, I got it to fit basically perfect when the overflow washer had the fat part pointing down. I was off a bit on the overflow washer lining up with the overflow hole on the tub because the PVC cement kind of changes your measurements a bit (vs dry fitting). It should still function fine I believe, since the fat part of the washer is at the bottom (can’t really see that in the photo) and will still create a seal. But to be safe, I may use a bit of dupont clear silicone or plumber’s putty as an extra barrier since I am paranoid. I did make a few minor mistakes in PVC priming and cementing by getting a bit of purple primer on other parts of the PVC as you can see by the photos. But I believe my mistakes were minor and won’t hurt the integrity of the PVC (please let me know if you think otherwise). Thanks so much for the help, and if you see anything I did wrong based on the photos, please let me know.

I do have one question. I used Oatey Medium Clear PVC Cement and Oatey CPVC/ PVC Purple Primer. They are the basic PVC cement/primer. I have heard that pros tend to use stronger stuff. Regardless, I have read that Schedule 40 PVC pipe has a maximum operating temperature of 140 degrees F. People apparently shower with water that is 105 to 110 degrees F, and that if they are letting the shower warm up… the water may reach above 120 degrees F. I’m not so worried about the PVC itself… but the bond I made with the PVC cement.

At what temperature does the PVC cement bond break down? I read the cans and all they say is what the application temperature of the primer and cement are (40 degrees F to 110 degrees F), not the operating temperature. I believe the application temperature only regards the best temps to apply the cement and primer to the PVC, which is not what I am interested in at the moment.

Anyways, thanks everyone for your help, I got another step checked off my list for installing the tub and I greatly appreciate everyone’s advice.

Oh, I was told that I could set the drain gasket with Plumber’s silicone grease when I install the tub. I already have clear Kitchen and Bath silicone (by Dupont) at home, and was thinking to use a very minor amount of that around the edge of the gasket to hold it in place when I install the tub (since I have to pre-install the drain/overflow because I have no access to it when the tub is in place). If there is an issue with my choice of silicone, please let me know.

Thanks again to everyone One step down, a few more to go…

 

[johnjh2o]

Looks good in fact it's quite neat. You did a good job with the primer. As far as the temperature of the water exceeding the limits of the PVC it won't happen. Now comes the fun part of setting the trap up to fit the new tub to. Do you have any access to the back of the tub?

John

 

[havasu]

You did a good job with the primer.

John

I agree. When I use primer, it usually turns my hands purple, the pipe's all purple, and whatever is under the pipes are spotted with purple dots.

 

[johnjh2o]

I agree. When I use primer, it usually turns my hands purple, the pipe's all purple, and whatever is under the pipes are spotted with purple dots.

Yea, I think it jumps out of the can at you. After a day of using that stuff your not fit to be seen in public. They do make a clear primer but most inspectors won't allow it's use. There would be no way they could tell if you were using primer with out the coloring.

John

 

[phishfood]

Remember the bad old days when we used tar to seal the tub boxouts?

When I was promoted to foreman, that is the one thing I would no longer do. Anything else, I would do. The harder the job, the dirtier the job, etc, I would do it, just so everyone knew that the boss wasn't scared of anything. But I absolutely despise pouring fibered roof tar into tub boxes. The idiot purchasing agent thought he was saving money by buying 5 gallon buckets of that crap, but it took 4 times as much to get it all the way around the boxout.

 

[johnjh2o]

What is just as bad is chiseling the stuff up through a small access hole behind the tub to replace the old tubular brass trip waste that rotted out.

John

 

[amodoko]

Hey guys, thanks for the compliments on my priming I tried the best I could. I remember I did make another mistake though, when attaching the tee to the drain's PVC extension... I didn't push down all the way in cementing the tee to the PVC extension on the drain. I think it could have gone in about 2 or 3mm deeper. I got distracted in trying to make the tee line up with the line of the overflow while the cement was wet... so that kind of messed me up, and by the time I realized it I think the cement had hardened a bit. It is hard to tell in the photos and in real life, but I do think it could have gone in a bit further. I know that the joint strength is weakened if the pvc connections aren't completely pushed in.

However, considering it is only maybe 2 or 3 mm off from being pushed in the furthest it can go, I'm hoping it won't affect the strength that much.

And to answer your question johnjh2o, I do not have access to the back of the tub. It will be a nightmare setting the trap I believe, and a nightmare doing the "wet test" to see if there are any leaks once the tub is installed. The house is on a slab and there is no lower floor... and the long side of the tub will be up against an outside wall, and the side where the drain will be closest to has a ton of brass piping ( or copper, I don't know how to tell). I've attached a pic to show you what it looks like. The wall on the other side of where the drain and overflow is just the wall under my kitchen sink. Although I could technically access the tub through the wall under the kitchen sink, I don't know if I should cut out the drywall where all the piping is.

What would you do in this situation?

 

[johnjh2o]

It can be done without access but it take some careful measuring. The first thing you have to do is remove the old trap and replace it with one in the proper location for your tub. From the pictures you have posted it appears to be a 14" steel tub. The first dimension you need is the center line of the waste & overflow from the backside of the tub. It should be somewhere around 14-1/2" + or -. This measurement must be exact. The next measurement is the center line from the head wall. This is usually 1-1/2" on most tubs, but check it to be sure. The final measurement is the height of the tub shoe above the floor. To get this number remove the tub waste from the tub and set the tub on a flat and level floor, making sure the tub is also level in all directions. Then measure the distance from the floor to the bottom of the tub were the shoe attaches. That is the height that you want the shoe to be above the floor including the gasket. The finale step is to glue the correct length of PVC into you trap and onto the waste & overflow so the tub shoe is at the correct height above the floor. With all that glued and in place then drop the tub onto the waste. The first connection to the tub should be the shoe. The gasket for the shoe can be put in place through the hole in the tub were the shoe connects, get it in place then put some plumbers putty on your strainer and screw it into place. Your last connection is the overflow. Just put the gasket in place and fasten the overflow plate with the two screws. When testing for leaks it may be helpful to use a mirror. If it tests out OK then anyway you can cement the hole back up in the floor. This helps prevents termites from finding there way into your home.

John

 

[amodoko]

Hey thanks johnh2o, that is very helpful. When you say that I should use a mirror to test for leaks though... how do I do that? There is no access on any of the sides of the tub when it is in place so I wouldn't be able to get a mirror to angle correctly to see any leaks.

Everything else you said I understand I think, take several measurements for installing the w/o with a new p trap, and install the gaskets once the tub is in place over the w/o. And recementing the hole to prevent termites (I have quikcrete and I'm assuming that should be fine for this purpose). Thanks so much for the explanation.

I have trouble understanding the process of checking for leaks though using a mirror. Am I supposed to do that while the tub is set in place, or after I remove it again to patch up the cement hole?

Thanks again john, I appreciate it

 

[johnjh2o]

Use the mirror to look down at the waste and overflow by positioning it in the head wall. Once the tub is set and tested there is no reason to remove it to cement the hole up. Cement the hole with the tub in place. Just take hands full of cement and reach down behind the head wall to re-cement the hole. It doesn't have to be smooth just fill the hole in the floor. It may get messy but it's better then removing and resetting the tub.

John

 

[amodoko]

Oh, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that with me. And since I am already on this thread, I have one more question for you johnh2o if you don't mind sharing your expert opinion again.

I had called the manufacturer of the tub I am going to install to ask them weight specs. The user of this tub is 425 pounds and I needed to ask them if the foam pad under the tub was sufficient for support. They said the tub is only tested up to 300 lbs and is not recommended above that. I'm assuming all steel tubs are probably around the same weight limit. Cast iron is currently out of the question due to its weight and difficulty getting it into the place, not to mention I already have done so much work on this tub and the bathroom according to its specs, so I do not want to return it.

I don't want to void the warranty and remove the pad, but I do want extra support since the tub is not meant to hold a 425 pound man, it is meant for only 300 pounds or less. Do you think it would be okay if I did this: Cutting wood from 2x4s and shaping it to fit the base of the tub and creating a rectangular shaped structure to go around the foam pad on all sides. I would cut the wood so that there would be a gap between it and the tub, and in that gap I would pack it with some foam padding I bought from Lowes to allow the tub some "give" with weight and to soften the way the wood feels to the tub. I attached two pics to show you what I mean. The first one is of the tub's foam pad, the second one explains more of what I want to do.

I don't think steel really cracks, but I know it can bend, which is why I want to install additional reinforcement.

So what do you think? Is my plan for extra reinforcement using wood and foam padding good and safe?

 

[johnjh2o]

That question I can't answer for you. That would take a structural engineer, which I am not.

John

 

[amodoko]

Okay, thanks so much for the reply, I appreciate it