New approach to automated leak detection

[mph]

I purchased a sponsor membership to post here. Hope I can get some help and insight from the community.

I am an electronics engineer and have developed an alternative approach for automated water leak detection in the smart home/building. There are already two methods on the market: i) smart metering that detects anomalous flow conditions and ii) contact moisture sensors. My approach uses the acoustics generated by pressurized water escaping from a crack, seam, or loose fitting. Stand-off detection is possible so a device can be mounted on a wall or ceiling similar to a smoke detector. It works best when it is not in contact with plumbing. Leaks as small as 0.01 gpm can be identified, depending on the ambient conditions. These claims have been independently verified by UL and a provisional patent is now in place. I have refined engineering prototypes over several years and have a lot of data.

The sensor is designed to run on battery power and communicate wirelessly with a central hub. No audio is streamed to the hub. Signal processing to detect leaks takes place entirely on the device -- eavesdropping on conversations (think home assistant like Alexa) is impossible. Data rates are ultra-low to give max battery life. The hub can adjust monitoring parameters depending on environmental conditions, such as time of day and building activity. This will affect sensitivity and dramatically reduce false alarms. Great places to deploy it are attics, crawl spaces, and inside sink cabinets. Yes, it should also work with refrigerant leaks although I have not done any testing. All the parts total about $25 in single unit quantities and cost would drop dramatically in production.

I am a tech guy, not a business person and do not have any contacts in the plumbing industry. I am attempting to determine if there is any potential for a product. I'm not selling anything at this time; the goal here is to get some sort of market validation. I have a few engineering prototypes available for testing/evaluation. I am not looking to go into manufacturing, just trying to find an OEM partner or licensing opportunities. Please message me if interested or can offer some guidance.

The attached photo was taken during the UL test session. It was taken from the perspective of a simulated leak flowing at 0.04 gpm. The leak is being picked up by the tiny sensor (not visible) located about 31 ft away. This was the maximum separation that could be attained in their lab.

 

[Geofd]

This may work for vacation homes do you have plans for it to be a plug in type,
We have at work a flow wheel piped right into the water line, a woman I work for has some sort of solenoid valve piped into her water main,all elec power,how long does your battery last

 

[havasu]

So you want us to validate what is shown without any validity? Sorry, I can't do this.

I will tell you that water burst claims cost insurance companies billions of dollars a year, and is on every homeowner's mind, especially when they are away from home. All the homes in my area use copper pipe under slab, and every house has at one time had their water pipes burst.

 

[mph]

This may work for vacation homes do you have plans for it to be a plug in type,
We have at work a flow wheel piped right into the water line, a woman I work for has some sort of solenoid valve piped into her water main,all elec power,how long does your battery last

There are many companies offering an automatic shutoff valve for the water main. These work in tandem with an inline flow meter or moisture sensors. My device could certainly be paired with shutoff valves. Battery life depends on the radio being used and the type of battery. A WiFi link would drain a coin cell in less than a week, but there are other wireless protocols available that should be able to make it last a couple of years. My demo devices use Bluetooth Low Energy paired to a smart phone or tablet.

 

[mph]

So you want us to validate what is shown without any validity? Sorry, I can't do this.

The technology works or I wouldn't be posting here. What I don't know is if there is a market for it. I'm trying to gauge interest from people experienced with the plumbing industry.

 

[Geofd]

The technology works or I wouldn't be posting here. What I don't know is if there is a market for it. I'm trying to gauge interest from people experienced with the plumbing industry.

Have you tried plumbing supply houses
Or plumbing product manufacturer
We had a big flood in a clean room so a flow wheel was installed.there are r and companies out the were water coming in contact with certain chemicals an be very bad .there also experiments that are timed over a period of hours or days,
If more flow than normal was detected
Your device could work there

 

[mph]

These are good suggestions, it's just super hard to get an audience with people of influence. I have called local plumbing outfits, alarm companies, and insurance offices trying to arrange in-person demos. This has not been successful. All the trade shows are getting cancelled because of the pandemic.

 

[havasu]

I purchased those sensing washing machine supply lines, that shut off when it senses a burst line. Unfortunately, with the front load LG washing machine, it surges water so quick. It would shut off the flow on every cycle. Also, having them on a pedestal, the valves are buried too low to have the lever type shut off valves. Anything to help the homeowner would be a blessing. One side note, is I believe your design would not work with a Grundfos recirculation system, would it?

 

[mph]

One side note, is I believe your design would not work with a Grundfos recirculation system, would it?

Any system with exposed, pressurized water lines that can develop leaks is a candidate. I have done some testing with buried pipes and the device picks up leaks with reduced sensitivity. I have also done some experimentation with leaks located inside of drywall sections. A sensor placed anywhere on the wall will hear them, without requiring drilling a hole or any form of wall modification.

 

[Geofd]

These are good suggestions, it's just super hard to get an audience with people of influence. I have called local plumbing outfits, alarm companies, and insurance offices trying to arrange in-person demos. This has not been successful. All the trade shows are getting cancelled because of the pandemic.

How about plumbing supply houses

Any system with exposed, pressurized water lines that can develop leaks is a candidate. I have done some testing with buried pipes and the device picks up leaks with reduced sensitivity. I have also done some experimentation with leaks located inside of drywall sections. A sensor placed anywhere on the wall will hear them, without requiring drilling a hole or any form of wall modification.

How about a pumped sewer or storm drain (forced main)

 

[breplum]

Having been in the plumbing business for 47 years and going to construction and plumbing trade shows every year, here is my take:
Try to find a licensing deal with a major mfr.
From a plumbing contractor perspective, we would only be interested in products backed by major mfrs. Anything less would be foolhardy.

Every year at the PHCC shows there might be a few new products demo'd and we know better than to consider these small companies because they will be gone in a short amount of years.

Sure, maybe a plumbing dealer would feature your item at the front of store, but no contractor can afford liability to touch it if it is not backed big-time.

 

[Dshow]

I would be a consumer of this type of product...

I am nearing retirement and shut the water main off if we are going to be gone for any length of time. I have thought about this alot... I have 1/2 the issue resolved, I have a water shutoff that I can control via my smart phone, but right now, I have no way of detecting water flow...

My thoughts on something like this before I would pull the trigger are:
1) How many do you need to cover the full house? Water leaks can happen anywhere in the house... I want something where I can avoid installing multiple units. (Murphy's Law says I will get a leak just out of the range of a sensor...)
2) How would I know if the device is working and working properly? (With devices that strap to the water meter outside, I could read flow and see that it changed daily or during a shower, etc...)

Dshow

 

[mph]

Having been in the plumbing business for 47 years and going to construction and plumbing trade shows every year, here is my take:
Try to find a licensing deal with a major mfr.
From a plumbing contractor perspective, we would only be interested in products backed by major mfrs. Anything less would be foolhardy.

Every year at the PHCC shows there might be a few new products demo'd and we know better than to consider these small companies because they will be gone in a short amount of years.

Sure, maybe a plumbing dealer would feature your item at the front of store, but no contractor can afford liability to touch it if it is not backed big-time.

This is really good advice and tends to confirm the direction I want to go with this. It's just so tough to get meetings with the big OEMs. I'm investigating marketing firms to see if they can make something happen.

 

[mph]

I would be a consumer of this type of product...

I am nearing retirement and shut the water main off if we are going to be gone for any length of time. I have thought about this alot... I have 1/2 the issue resolved, I have a water shutoff that I can control via my smart phone, but right now, I have no way of detecting water flow...

My thoughts on something like this before I would pull the trigger are:
1) How many do you need to cover the full house? Water leaks can happen anywhere in the house... I want something where I can avoid installing multiple units. (Murphy's Law says I will get a leak just out of the range of a sensor...)
2) How would I know if the device is working and working properly? (With devices that strap to the water meter outside, I could read flow and see that it changed daily or during a shower, etc...)

Dshow

There are plenty of smart flow meters available. Some work in tandem with shutoff valves. Look at products by Stream Labs, Flume, LeakSmart, Water Hero, Phyn, etc.

Question 1: Hard to answer definitively. In residential applications with a ceiling mount like a smoke detector, I have found that one sensor per floor works on an average-size house. If the leak is located in an enclosed, under-sink cabinet, sensitivity will be diminished. The best places are quiet attics, crawl spaces, basements, etc. Acoustics from leaks can travel a long distance provided there is not a thick barrier in the way like a closed door.

Question 2: The sensor is designed to work wirelessly with a smart hub. The system would alert you via a phone app or text that it had detected an acoustic anomaly consistent with a leak. If you had remote control of the water main valve, you could shut it off and determine if the alarm condition had cleared.

 

[Stanlee]

Have you Investigated whether you might qualify to get a spot on NBC's Shark Tank? You would likely need a very compelling dog-and-pony-show.

 

[mph]

Have you Investigated whether you might qualify to get a spot on NBC's Shark Tank? You would likely need a very compelling dog-and-pony-show.

I have no customers and no sales. I'd be booted off the set in 2 minutes.

 

[Stanlee]

I have no customers and no sales. I'd be booted off the set in 2 minutes.

How about manufacturers trade groups? You could probably join as an Allied Member or Consultant.
That should provide access to some names & contact info. You have a Linkedin profile, right?
Use your engineering circle. social media, etc

 

[mph]

How about manufacturers trade groups? You could probably join as an Allied Member or Consultant.
That should provide access to some names & contact info. You have a Linkedin profile, right?
Use your engineering circle. social media, etc

Bought an InMail subscription on LinkedIn and contacted many dozens of people who are in positions to evaluate and influence. This was a total dead end. People do not enjoy getting unsolicited email. So I bought a sponsor membership to this forum to determine if the plumbing community would find this technology useful. Not selling anything, just looking for constructive feedback.