Kitchen Renovation Help

[Chuckman4112]

Thanks phishfood. It was the old sink line that is rotted. The main seems in much better condition, I'll know more when I finish digging around it tomorrow.

I was looking around for what I need based on your reply, and I saw this Flexible Saddle. Your thoughts on going this route to tie in the new drain?

 

[phishfood]

I certainly wouldn't use that under slab. In fact, International Plumbing Code specifically prohibits saddles on drainage pipe.

Consider that you can't see the inside of the 4", so you don't know what shape it is in.

Get a few grit blades for your reciprocating saw, and cut in a plastic wye. That will be a much more professional install, and you will also get a much better idea of what the inside of the pipe is like.

Personally, I have seen what happens to cast iron over the years, and I would recommend using this opportunity to change out every bit of it you can get to.

 

[phishfood]

I recently did a camera inspection of a bunch of drain lines for one of my day job's bigger customers, and so I have a couple of pictures of the inside of old 4" cast iron. This isn't what you want your drain pipes to look like.

 

[Chuckman4112]

Well, I dug out around the pipe...Not good. Seems the further these pipes go, the worse they get. Right where I planned to tap in there is a crack and a hole. Time to call a plumber and get an estimate. Not that I could not do it, but quite frankly I am beat up and tired from what I have already done and time is a factor. I need my kitchen back.

The good news is, my buddy lent me his inspection camera (look like the one you have in your photo's) and after running it down the line it seems there is only like 10 ft past this bad area that looks bad. After that, it all seems really clear and clean. I am guessing that it has something to do with when they switched over from septic to sewer. Hopefully that is the case and they won't have to go to far with this.

I'll upload some Bad pipe/Good pipe pics later. I think my camera needs charged because the red lights on the camera just went out .

 

[Chuckman4112]

Okay phishfood (and others with a trained eye) am I on the right track? Does it look like I have newer pipe downline. The 4 pictures are...

1.) picture taken 5 feet pastthe rotted/cracked area where I wanted to tie in. (pic 10)
2.) 10 feet past (pic 11)
3.) 17 feet past (Pic 12)
4.) 20 feet past (Pic 13)

You guys have been great. You have no idea how much I appreciate your help on my project.

 

[stevemachine]

Well based on the pictures the line looks like its in ok shape. Picture 2 looks like it has a hump(belly) in the line which might cause some issues with drainage down the road. Other than that it looks fine considering the age chuck. How old is your house?

 

[stevemachine]

And yes it does look new in picture 4.

 

[Chuckman4112]

Thanks Steve. House was built in the 50's. I am thinking they went from septic to sewage no more than 15-25 years back. I have been here for 12 years and place still had well water connected when I bought it.

I'm hoping thats why I see new pipe and I won't have to go to far to fix current pipe.

 

[stevemachine]

Oh ok well that's good then. Any idea of the type of the material out to the sewer? Usually when we have done sewer replacements we replace the entire line regardless if there's only one bad spot but again totally up to you. It would suck if you replace a portion and then 5 yrs later another portion fails. I have to agree with phish, if you can replace all the pipe you can get to right now. But get some quotes and decide what you want to do based on price. Get three quotes too make sure you get a fair price.

 

[phishfood]

I wouldn't want to testify to it, but I think that the line converts from cast iron to clay. See the material change in picture 3, and how it appears to be shorter sections with very obvious joints in Picture 4? As long as clay pipe doesn't get damaged, offset/broken joints, or roots don't find their way in through the joints, clay pipe lasts a long, long time. But I have only ever heard of it being used on the outside sewer line. Though it doesn't make sense that it would be used on the new sewer line, as far as I know Chicago is the only place that still uses clay for sewer lines, most places use PVC. Still, the joints look much too close to be 20' or even 10' lengths of PVC, and the inside looks a little rough.

Something caused the cast iron that you have dug up to be very corroded, and I would be concerned that all of the rest of the cast iron is in similar condition. At the very least, I would advise you to have the rest of the line jetted thoroughly then re camera inspect to get a better idea of it's condition.

 

[Chuckman4112]

Your not saying even the clean portion after 17 ft are you? If not, then yes, I am going to get estimate on from old toilet connector (you can see it in one of the pics abode) out to clean portion of pipe at 17 ft.

Oh, I am definately getting 3. I got an estimate early on for the work I have done so far and he wanted 8,000.00 to cut the trench and run lines. I about **** my pants. I fiqured 2 days work top to do this project. (Not knowing lines were bad) Hell, if I did not hit the snag of rotted connections it would have only taken me 2 1/2 days by myself.

I have the first guy coming tomorrow morning. Probably going to lose sleep wondering what this is going to cost. I might just have to do this myself too...LOL

What would you consider a fair estimate? I'm looking at another two feet in the kitchen to the foundation, and about 15 feet outside (all dirt). Ballpark?

I also called someone who has trenchless application. I watch it get pulled through the old pipe...what an awesome video.

 

[Chuckman4112]

Phishfood,

I think it might be the clay that rotted it. The pipe all looked fine until I got further down line digging it out. It seems once it entered far enough under ground where it sat in clay, that is where it started looking bad. Does clay do that to cast?

As for the replacement line for sewage, no idea. Is it possible it's terracotta? This guy did all his own work on this house, and there was a bunch of 3-4 ft terracotta pipes stacked next to the garage when I bought the place.

 

[stevemachine]

Agreed with phish. Clay could be possible and definitely jet it. There could be a crack in the cast but with all the flakes and stuff on the cast you can't tell the true condition of the pipe.

 

[stevemachine]

It's hard to say chuck. Its your call, if its good past the 17 ft you might be ok. But sometimes they dig at 17 ft, cut it and then its cracked or corroded or you can't tie into it for other reasons. Not saying its gonna happen but prepare for worst case scenario if you know what I mean. I dunno about a price, it really depends on the region. In my area around 4000 or so is about right. But it might not be the same as your area chuck.

 

[stevemachine]

I guess I figure around 100 bucks an hr in my region is fair price and mark up material 30-50%.
But once you get 3 quotes you'll be able to tell what a fair price is, cheapest isn't always best. Ask about warranties and guarantees as well. And I'm not sure what terra cotta is but ill research it haha. It is quite possible if he has lengths laying around

 

[stevemachine]

Yes the terra cotta (clay) seems about right

 

[Chuckman4112]

Ahh, terra cotta is clay. I did not know that. That would fall in line with what phishfood said. He thought it reverted to clay pipe.

How about you phish...any quesstamate for what I need done? First guy will be here at 11am this morning.

Like I said, I am planning on replacing every thing from old toilet connection out to newer pipe which seems about 23 feet total. Keep in mind most of the pipe in the house is already exposed and there is about 15ft outside and all dirt. Guessing pipe is no more than 4-5 ft down outside based on the current slope from inside.

 

[AQualityPlumber]

You should consider insulating the hot line if not mentioned yet. This will make sure you don't radiat the heat through the slab.

 

[Chuckman4112]

Well, just an update. Had to replace line out to driveway. It was pretty bad. All is back together and on track again. Thanks all.

 

[stevemachine]

Oh wow, well at least it's all done now. Thanks for checking back in, always good to hear the outcome. What did he replace it with? PVC or ABS?