How to deal with a high toilet flange?

[kovacs]

I'm replacing an old toilet, and discovered the toilet flange is 1/2" to 11/16" (different heights in different spots around flange) above the tile floor. I picked up this American Standard toilet elongated, 12" rough in.

Any suggestions on how to get this properly seated?

 

[Twowaxhack]

If it’s a metal flange slap a thick wax down or even two molded together to make one. Without the horn. The ole two-wax-hack

set the toilet and caulk around the bases

 

[JG plumbing]

Use a plain wax ring with no horn shimms and caulk.

 

[Tim Whistler]

Doesn't look too high to me, have you tried setting the toilet and it is rocking?
A few shims would be fine to fix that. Agree with no horn wax ring!

 

[havasu]

Can anyone explain to the OP why a "No Horn" wax ring should be used versus a "Horned" wax ring?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Can anyone explain to the OP why a "No Horn" wax ring should be used versus a "Horned" wax ring?

They do nothing but possibly restrict the outlet of the toilet.
A closet auger can push them into the pipe or pull them back into the toilet bowl.

They can cause splashing as the toilet is flushing.

Theyre Not needed.

 

[JG plumbing]

The horn just raises the toilet flange higher. It creates a "high center" type of situation that a shim would just have to overcome. A plan wax ring would let the toilet sit down onto the floor as much as possible.

 

[fixitron]

When the toilet flange is sitting on top of the finished floor, which is the ideal height, and a wax ring with a horn is installed, there is not a lot of room between the ring and underside of the toilet. In my experience that sometimes squeezes out the wax leaving just the plastic horn and a little wax on each side of it. That is exacerbated by toilets that are not tightened to the floor properly (at least 2/3 of all toilets I have checked or worked on). When the toilet slides around it can squeeze even more wax out, allowing for leakage.

 

[Tom the Elder]

The flange that worked fine for my old toilet was too high for my replacement toilet. Using suggestions from comments here and another forum I:
1) before placing the wax ring, I sat the toilet in place and used masking tape to outline it on the floor.
2) then used long, flat shims (not wedge) to raise and level the toilet, then taped the shims to the floor so they would not move. Strips cut from playing cards on top of thin wood strips let me get that sucker dead level.
3) removed the toilet, placed the wax ring, and re-set the toilet onto the shims, using the masking tape as a guide so almost no adjustment was needed.
4) used a grout bag to inject plaster of Paris under the edge between shims (back ungrouted).
5) after grout dried, removed shims and grouted the gaps.
6) sealed the grout with standard caulk.

Why all that effort that would be absurd for a pro? Because I had not set a toilet in something like 25 years and could easily have made a mistake. Adjusting shims with ring in place could have led to failure. A little movement of wedge shims when removing and resetting the toilet could put it out of level. The result looks professional and is dead level.

 

[JG plumbing]

The flange that worked fine for my old toilet was too high for my replacement toilet. Using suggestions from comments here and another forum I:
1) before placing the wax ring, I sat the toilet in place and used masking tape to outline it on the floor.
2) then used long, flat shims (not wedge) to raise and level the toilet, then taped the shims to the floor so they would not move. Strips cut from playing cards on top of thin wood strips let me get that sucker dead level.
3) removed the toilet, placed the wax ring, and re-set the toilet onto the shims, using the masking tape as a guide so almost no adjustment was needed.
4) used a grout bag to inject plaster of Paris under the edge between shims (back ungrouted).
5) after grout dried, removed shims and grouted the gaps.
6) sealed the grout with standard caulk.

Why all that effort that would be absurd for a pro? Because I had not set a toilet in something like 25 years and could easily have made a mistake. Adjusting shims with ring in place could have led to failure. A little movement of wedge shims when removing and resetting the toilet could put it out of level. The result looks professional and is dead level.

Damn Tom. You nailed that one.

 

[Jeff Handy]

If it’s a metal flange slap a thick wax down or even two molded together to make one. Without the horn. The ole two-wax-hack

set the toilet and caulk around the bases

I think you are thinking his flange is recessed, sitting too low.
He is saying it is too high.

 

[Jeff Handy]

The flange that worked fine for my old toilet was too high for my replacement toilet. Using suggestions from comments here and another forum I:
1) before placing the wax ring, I sat the toilet in place and used masking tape to outline it on the floor.
2) then used long, flat shims (not wedge) to raise and level the toilet, then taped the shims to the floor so they would not move. Strips cut from playing cards on top of thin wood strips let me get that sucker dead level.
3) removed the toilet, placed the wax ring, and re-set the toilet onto the shims, using the masking tape as a guide so almost no adjustment was needed.
4) used a grout bag to inject plaster of Paris under the edge between shims (back ungrouted).
5) after grout dried, removed shims and grouted the gaps.
6) sealed the grout with standard caulk.

Why all that effort that would be absurd for a pro? Because I had not set a toilet in something like 25 years and could easily have made a mistake. Adjusting shims with ring in place could have led to failure. A little movement of wedge shims when removing and resetting the toilet could put it out of level. The result looks professional and is dead level.

I do a similar thing with a high flange or rocking toilet from uneven flooring.
Outline the ideal base location with painter’s tape in a few spots.
But I just use coins as shims.
No pennies, but dimes, nickels, quarters.
I use superglue gel to hold them on to the floor where needed.
Or a dab of caulk if not in a hurry, or superglue is old and hardened.
And to hold a small stack of coins together.
They are mostly out of sight under the edge.
I only hide with caulk if someone notices them, or if the gap is ugly.
And maybe in the future, a coin will be rare and someone will discover a surprise fortune!

 

[Twowaxhack]

I think you are thinking his flange is recessed, sitting too low.
He is saying it is too high.

No, I just use two wax seals sometimes because by the time I stretch them out to fit the flange they’re thinned out. Some flanges are larger than others.

For example, a 4” over the pipe flange, a typical wax seal will almost fall into the pipe.

 

[Tim Whistler]

If the flange is too high the real solution is to break out/cut out the flange and and install a new one lower. Simple as that.
If you absolutely cannot do that, or the customer is unwilling to pay for it, then you need to write it up in the paperwork as a potential problem that is not covered under warranty. C. Y. A.

 

[Twowaxhack]

For uneven floors or humps in the floor resulting in the toilet not contacting the floor in spots I’ll use shims and caulk or cement/grout. Hydraulic cement works great.

 

[JG plumbing]

I think you are thinking his flange is recessed, sitting too low.
He is saying it is too high.

Jeff your right.

 

[kovacs]

Had a chance to get back to this today.

Can anyone explain to the OP why a "No Horn" wax ring should be used versus a "Horned" wax ring?

Thanks, and thanks for the responses - now I understand why the horn isn't a good idea for this high flange situation.

Doesn't look too high to me, have you tried setting the toilet and it is rocking?
A few shims would be fine to fix that. Agree with no horn wax ring!

I measured the height of the bottom of the bowl (distance between edge of bottom of bowl and the flat surface on the underside of the bowl) - it's just over 1/2", but less than 5/8", so call it 9/16". The highest spot on the flange is 11/16" off the floor.

So I'd need to shim 1/8" to let the toilet sit flush, and maybe another 1/16" to allow for some wax to remain on the flange and not be totally squeezed out? Is this within a reasonable level of shimming?

Separately, I just pulled the bowl out of the box and noticed this crack in the area where the tank empties into the bowl. I assume this is a problem?

 

[Jeff Handy]

Looks like a molding or firing defect.
That area might not be involved in handling water anyway.
It might be sealed ok on the other side.
It is probably fine structurally.
If in doubt, return it.
Or seal the crack with 3M marine sealant.

 

[JG plumbing]

I'd return it on the spot. That's not what you thought you were buying.

As mentioned above it could be just fine but why? Not what I'd want in my toilet.

 

[kovacs]

I got around to returning the toilet. New toilet has no such manufacturing defect (kind of surprising that QC didn't catch it since it's easily observable; doesn't say much for their QC process).

Dry fit toilet and yes, it does rock due to the high flange. I shimmed it to stop the rocking, and taped those shims down. Just need to drop in the wax ring (no horn) and set toilet down.

Do you guys prefer to set the wax ring on the underside of the toilet (maybe heating ring up slightly so that it sticks while you're moving toilet), or sit it down on the flange?