House Im buying had a Burst Water Pipe

[CHRISM]

"Hello D73",

Good to hear that You will be getting a `Detailed Report` regarding the Water Damage/Drying Out Procedures etc.

I realise that the Report will be far too Detailed to put any of the Text on here - BUT - would it be possible for You to `Post` a brief Synopsis on here ??

As some of us have `taken an interest`/ tried to help You with this - it would be good to hear about the `Outcome`.

Just the MAIN Points would do - You could post them as a `Signing Off`.

"Good Luck" with the House.

"Regards",


CHRISM.

 

[D73]

hopefully get report friday.had quick chat today to company.said he was expecting far worse.hasn't quoted for decoration etc.. basics inc. replastering damaged walls, ceiling kitchen mold treatment,doors. Didn't mention under floors, stairs,treating wood or use or dehumidifiers, seemed to suggest wood dry naturally once plaster removed. speak to actual person tomorrow though to get more information.

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello D73",

Unless We are all under the COMPLETELY WRONG impression about the extent of the Water Saturation at the property - the WOOD / FLOORS alone would take a `Long Period of time to just `Dry Out`- without the use of `Dryers`/ `Dehumidifiers`. - Although the Weather seems to have improved - it is still COLD at Night - and DAMP - even during the Day in `Unheated` premises - it is COLD - THESE are NOT the conditions in which to `Expect` the `Water Saturated` items to `Dry Out Naturally` ! !

The same applies to ALL of the `Drying Out`.

It may be suggested that Drying Out `Naturally`- without Dryers / Dehumidifiers would be `Best` BECAUSE there is less `Warping` / Twisting of Wood items - that MIGHT be the case IF You had perhaps 3 to 6 MONTHS of Spring / Summer `Warm` Conditions - with the Property WELL VENTILATED
- usually meaning at the minimum - with ALL Windows left OPEN [secured].
THAT would be just a `Guesstimate` for the Drying Out ALL of the affected areas - as obviously I have NOT Inspected the Property.

BUT I feel that WE are trying to `Advise` You on the basis that You wanted to Purchase the Property - `Dried Out` - `Made Good` and in a `Timely Manner` - ??

If You are receiving `Advice` from either someone that You have `Engaged` - or from someone that You `Trust` - As they will have `Inspected` the Property - perhaps Their Advice is what You feel You should Adhere to ??


The Items that You said have NOT been `mentioned` - are EXPENSIVE !

I would be interested in what You find out - and what You decide to do next.

"Regards",

CHRISM.

 

[D73]

Hi Chris

I'm basically listening to all advice on here and also the people who have inspected the property / quoted repair. After the dehumidifiers were in the heating has been on full-pelt since (about 6 ish weeks now). I realise its better to dry out slowly, one repairest when I asked about putting more dehumidifiers in said if it was insurance then theres more urgency to get dried out as they would have to pay to house tenents of the property which obviously costs them. Plus he also said bricks are never totally dry, is this true??? Humidity levels have now fell to normal levels <28-30%

Damp specialist has said theres rising damp from high ground and has quoted for DPC to stop this. Not sure what to make of DPC as I've heard of horror stories that it doesnt work and just weakens the brick work etc... so waiting for surveyor to come back to me to say if he thinks the quoted repairs are adequate and / or Bank will borrow. As he saw it post-flood he has been very helpful so am trusting his opinion / advice. As its a old house of brick structure I've been told there isnt that much wood that can be affected. obviously suspended floor and stairs. if it was timber structure think id of walked ages ago. Plus am willing to walk if not happy, just feel I need to see it threw as else i'll be always wondering if it what if!

D73

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello" D73",

Good to hear that You will be taking the advice of a Surveyor - You should ask him about the Question of whether Bricks ever `Dry out` - ??

MY opinion about this would be - Bricks VARY greatly from different parts of the Country - BUT in General - they have a `Weather Proof` Facing around the `perimeter` of the Brick - BUT - NOT on the surfaces that bond together with Mortar - While the `Faces` of all Bricks should prevent absorbsion of Water - the different Bricks would have different absorbsion of Water from the `Non - Faced` surfaces.

That - and the FACT that the `Pointing` of the courses on the INTERNAL face of the Brickwork does NOT `Seal`/ `Match` what you see on the Outside of the Walls - would mean that - unless the Internal Face of the Walls are `rendered` with Sand & Cement` - The Bricks would `Soak Up` any `Deluge` of Water via GAPS in the Mortar allowing the `Non - Faced` parts of the Bricks to absorb Water.

If Bricks with a `High Absorbsion` [Non - Faced Surfaces] got Saturated - it could take a very long time for them to `Dry Out` - BUT even what I describe about Water being able to Saturate parts of the Brickwork via `non pointed` internal joints - should NOT mean Large Sections of `Wet` Brickwork.

Perhaps that is what the remark about Bricks never `drying out` completely alluded to ??



With regard to the [Injected ?] Damp Proof Course - DPC - This IS a `Task` that has a large number of `Cowboy Installers` !

Because it is `seen` as a very easy way to `Make Money` - all sorts of people are `at it` - They think that with a Drill and a Liquid `Sprayer`/ Pump and some Chemicals [`Correct` Chemical ?] - that they can `Con` people into thinking that they are doing the `Correct Job` - and their `Guarantees` are Worthless !

If YOU are NOT the `Client` for this and CANNOT establish that the Company IS a `Legitimate`- `Well Established` Company - with Insurance Company backed Guarantees - You should consider this:

Anyone carrying out the `Drilling` all around an area of the House - at `Low Level` - NEAR to where the Damp Course SHOULD BE - COULD DAMAGE the area enough to PREVENT the Installation of a `Liquid DPC` - even by a `Reputable Company` - in a `Worst Case` scenario.

The reason that I mention this is because - Imagine IF You thought - "The Vendor is getting the Damp Proof Course `Sorted Out`" - "BUT if it is NOT done `correctly` - I will get it done again" - IF the `worst` were to happen - as described above - You might NOT be able to JUST have it `Drilled & Pumped in` again `correctly` - because of the `proximity` of the Drilled Holes to where they SHOULD BE !

Again - I DON`T want to either `Frighten` You - OR - Completely `Put You Off` the Property - BUT - what I write above CAN happen.

You should definitely mention this to the Surveyor - If He is a `Building Works Surveyor` - Could You involve Him to `Specify` exactly what is to be done - AND the Exact LINE that the DPC should take - ??

That way even if the `Correct Chemical` was NOT used - You should have the Holes in the `Correct Position` for re-use at a later date - IF required - Although even with this - IF the wrong Chemical is used which made the Bricks `locally` [near the holes] `Water Resistant` - it might NOT be possible to `Inject` a Liquid DPC into them at a `later date` - as the `Correct Chemical` would NOT be able to `permeate` the Bricks !


Please continue to `Update` us on here - I am very interested in the `Outcome` of this.


"Regards",


CHRISM.

 

[westflo]

You need to hire your own specialist, who is on your side to determine what actually needs to be done to correct the damage, not just mask them.

I agree. You should hire your own specialist on water damage, so that they can inspect if there are still danger on the water damage area. You need to make sure that the water damage is really treated right to keep you away from harmful molds.

 

[D73]

I'm still in the process of buying but I am willing to take the gamble as two surveyors seem to be positive if work done then will be fine. Seems to be taking an eternity but it's becoming more clearer. Managed to convince seller via reports what works are required etc..

Regarding the DPC where holes are drilled and chemicals used. Whats your take on this. I've read too much saying it's a con i.e. Damp meters used which are meant for timber and that all bricks will register moisture? I can say this that the ground is too high to one side of the house. ground is level with top of air bricks so needs dropping 6-9 inch. This will be done anyway but do you think this is the main cause. how could I check before and after if rising damp is disappearing. If I need DPC I will do this first off as its pretty destructive but not convinced.

regarding treatment of harmful molds. is there a standard process to this? If walls are plaster not plasterboards would mold be able to get behind or is it mostly plasterboards by nature. Planning to gut whereever necessary but few builders reckon that this wont be an issue except for a few areas. kitchen mostly.

All this odvice is golden btw. I'm sure it will serve useful for others to come as well.

Dave

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello D73"

Good to hear that things seem to be `going your way` - I hope that You can purchase a `Good House`.

Regarding the Injected Damp Course - Can I refer You back to my last `Post` - where I think that I gave You My opinion regarding some `Drawbacks` relating to this kind of operation.

There ARE plenty of Irresponsible People involved in this kind of Work - `Ripping People Off` !!

And of course there are `Responsible Companies` - with Reputations for Excellent Work and `Backed by Insured Warranties` - BUT - It is finding them that is the Problem.
Anyone can advertise as: `Being in existence since 1970` - Having `25 Year Warranties on their Work`!!

Anyone contemplating using a Company for an Injected Damp Course should `Research` the various local Companies - Including `Researching` the `Insurance Backed Warranty` - Easier said than `Done` !

Obviously You are aware that the Ground CANNOT be above the Damp Course - IF the fact that it has been has caused a Damp Problem - and when the Ground is `Lowered` it is possible to SEE that the Damp Proof Course is NOT `Damaged` - and is Fully Intact - Then perhaps there will be no need to have an Injected Damp Course installed ??

A Problem with that is - When the Ground has been Higher than the Damp Course the Bricks often become `Saturated` with Water - This Saturation would probably be `Worse` than ANY other `Damp`/ Water Damage in the House [?] - It is anyones Guess as to how long that these `Saturated` Bricks would take to `Dry Out` ??

IDEALLY the Section of Wall that You are referring to would have the Plaster / Sand & Cement Render [?] Hacked Off - Internally [and Externally if Rendered] to enable the Bricks to `Dry Out` - This will also reveal the section of Wall and perhaps allow You to SEE IF there is Damp `Rising` through the Existing Damp Course - ??

The `Problem` with this is the `Time Frame` - Drying Out of the Bricks may not be a `Quick` process - And checking on the Existing Damp Course will depend on the Weather - Amount of Rain etc - Although You could use a Hosepipe - `carefully` to `Saturate` the Wall BELOW the Damp Course - THAT would be a `Poor Substitute` for the `Ground Water` against the Brickwork below the Damp Course.

I am afraid that none of this has a `Quick Fix` or `Quick Test` - "Sorry" that I cannot be more `Positive`.

I cannot comment about the `Mould` possibilities - It does depend on the Structure in the areas where the Water Saturation was - Materials such as Plasterboard [Drywall Boards] ARE particularly vulnarable to Mould - unless of the `Anti Mould` variety - Wood is also vulnarable to Mould - some Tile Grout is also not `Mould Resistant`


"Regards",


CHRISM.

 

[D73]

I agree totally that picking the right company is key. And I think the risks of a bodged job do make it critical that it's done right first time round. Thing is when I read things like this
Rising Damp and The Rising Damp Myth
it does tally up with some of my own thoughts on DPC (although im not a builder so cant really comment). Company that did quote are PCA registered and offer 20+ guarantees but the way they said every wall including internal walls needed DPC seemed bit odd. Esp as it suffered a leak which added moisture by default. In fact it follows that site perfectly.

I was thinking about getting a damp meter, checking levels before, getting ground dropped and ensuring ventilation is adequate and then checking again later to see if the levels drop. But as that site states the meters are normally meant for timber not brick Im not sure this is a valid test, is this correct?

regarding mould, theres not much plasterboard, its the old type plaster but all that were by leak are going to be replaced.

Dave

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello Again Dave",

The Newspaper Article that You quoted does state Information that I would agree with - Although I have seen quite a lot of very damp walls during my working life - Usually quoted as `Rising Damp` - it has never been My `remit` to be involved in rectifying this - Or I would have `Investigated` further myself.

I agree with the Information on the `Use` of a `Damp Meter` - A `Marketing Tool` used by Damp Proofing Product Salesmen to `Shock` the Homeowner with their `Readings` - And used by Surveyors to ensure that they can `Recommend` that the Building is `Surveyed` by Damp Proofing `Professionals` - Surveyors putting the `Ball in Your Court` - And often putting `Plenty` of Your Money into the hands of Companies that have the intention of `Making Money Easily` - With No Intention of informing You that `This Work is NOT Necessary` - And having No Intention to `Rectify` any Poor Workmanship or `Misdiagnosis` of the cause of the Dampness - Whatever `Warranties` they might quote at `Estimate`/ `Quote` Stage.

IF You can `wait and see` - I would suggest getting the Ground lowered then see what transpires - Although obviously `Winter Weather` would give a better indication of Dampness entering the Brickwork - Wet Ground and `Cold`Temperatures allowing the water to remain in the Ground for longer than `Good` Weather does - Unless You have a long period of `Rainy Weather` ??

"Regards",


CHRISM.

 

[D73]

Thanks for that Chris

We live in #England so I think we can safely say we know what our summers are like of late (WET) Lol.

It all keys up, I believe some do suffer from rising damp but it seems like a doctor giving medication to mask a problem rather than fixing the true cause. from reading a few good books on damp / DIY I have come to the conclusions you just mentioned.

recommended reading in my opinion "The Damp House: A Guide to the Causes and Treatment of Dampness" not necessarily to carry out the work but to give a clear view of how to gauge what contractors are telling so you can form your own opinions.

Dave

 

[D73]

Alright Chris

I've spoken to my friend who is an experienced plasterer / builder. He totally agrees with your comments on DPC salesmen pitches etc. He has seen the property from the outside and thought the original DPC seemed perished. He said ground would lessen but to be sure I should at least get the walls drilled and filled with chemical as you wouldnt want to do it after decorating, plus if sold later then wouldnt be an issue. Said can do it yourself but I not sure I would want to do that. But said cost quoted was stupid and over the top.

Next door neighbour says these houses do not suffer from rising damp (he had to get it done for mortgage purposes 20 years ago) but stated the age of the house meant the only problem was condensation (house being solid brick). Said dry lining with membrane was how he stopped the problem.

looking forward to getting in there regardless and crafting a nice home. I've lived in a solid brick house all my life and wouldnt want one of these toyframe built new builds they build today.

Dave

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello Dave",

I am glad that your Friend confirmed what I said about the DPC Injection Salesmen - although it is a bit `disappointing` when a Friend also gives You a `High Quote` !

BEFORE `Acting` upon anything that I have written below - just one point -
A Damp Proof Course is something that the Local Building Control would normally be `Interested` in - And If/When You wanted to Sell the property - an `Injected` DPC would probably be `Picked Up` by the Surveyor for the Prospective Purchaser - They would be looking for Documentary Proof of the `Installation` having been carried out correctly [Building Regs.] and would `expect` a Warranty.

If You wanted to just ensure that YOU carry out the Work `correctly` - I would suggest that you might try to `Enquire` with Building Control [Local Authority] - Although this CAN have its `Draw Backs` - IF they decide to `Become Involved` - THEY will then `Specify` HOW it is to be done ! - And Charge You for the `Consultation` and `Inspection` etc. - And IF You have any `Doubtful` items of Building Work that have just been done you would not want the Building Control Officer `Looking Round`.

The main thing with these `Injected DPC`s` is that they are Injected at the correct level and that the Holes that are Drilled to achieve the `Spread` of the Chemical are CLOSE Enough to each other to allow each `Injection` to `Merge` with the one next to it - You would have to try to find out about that `Distance between Holes` - I cannot imagine that it would be more than 100mm - But you would have to `Check` this - I believe that the Holes are Drilled at a `Slight` Downward angle [?] - [helps Chemical to not run out]

Also something that is not easy to describe here - When Drilling you would HAVE TO `Ensure` that there is NO AREA where the Chemical could NOT `Merge`with the adjacent `Injections` - Otherwise the entire `Task` would be compromised ! - Sometimes `intermittent` Holes are required - between the `Regularly Spaced Holes`

Drilling a LOT of Holes at low level CAN be `Hard` on your Back and Knees - and I assume that You would Hire the Drill etc. - Something with `Enough` Power to Drill - `With Ease` - and Obviously quite a few `GOOD` Drill bits - A Combination of a `Medium Weight Drill` with plenty of Power - plus `Good` / Sharp [New] Drill Bits - to `suit` the `Injection Nozzle`[ Again Hired Equipment] - AND If you will be using `Rubberised Plugs` to `Plug` the Holes while the Chemical Damp Course `Soaks In` to the Bricks - Otherwise what you `Inject` will just `Run Out` of the Holes - I think that I have seen `Plumbers Mait` [Sanitaryware `Putty`] used in stead of this [?] - the Drill Bits must `Suit` the Nozzle and the `Plugs`[if used].

The Holes must be filled in after a suitable period of time - after the Chemical DPC has `Soaked` into the Bricks - Remove either `Plugs` or Plumbers Mait and fill with Sand and Cement mixture.


Perhaps if You don`t fancy this yourself - You could `Mark Out` - with your Friends advice - and Employ someone that you can `trust` to Drill all of the Holes - Then - again with advice from your Friend - `Supervise`/ `Help` with the actual `Injecting` [Spraying] of the Chemical Damp Proof Course ??

I would advise that You find out whether You can obtain the Correct DPC Chemical - [And Rubber Plugs ?] - Check that You can `Hire` the `Injection Equipment` - Check the availability of this. - The Drill - Transformer - Drill bits [`Sale or Return`] - should be `Standard Hire Shop Equipment`.

IF You decide to carry this out - I would be interested in `How You got on` - If You CAN work out how you can `Do it Yourself` / `Do it with Help` - You should definitely SAVE Plenty of Money - Though Please remember what I mentioned about Building Control and a Future Purchaser`s Survey.

I hope that some of this is `Helpful` - in an `Informal` way.


Regards,

Chris.

 

[D73]

Hi Chris,

I'm think im going to get a quote or two from some PCA registered Companies just to drill and inject the DPC and see if they offer any guarantees / certificate to signify this (if price seems fair). I dont feel comfortable doing my self and would like some certificate or something to say its been done by a professional.

My friend didnt give me a high quote btw. He just thought it was prob better to get it done for reasons you mention but hes offering to do all the internal rendering etc... while drylining/insulating the walls to cut costs. As the DPC is drilled from the outside, does this mean that the person(s) doing it doesnt need to do work from inside the house, as im removing the old plaster myself (i feel confident in ripping things down lol) and my mate doing remediation.

Could this be done in any order or is it a case of DPC injecting first, then internal rendering second? Sounds better to have DPC first though.

I think it's a case of having to do as much myself to keep costs from spiralling out of control. Monies are flying out me hands already and aint even got the keys yet lol. Plus im fairly competent with me hands on general DIY. I will let you know how I get on.

Dave

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello Dave",

Personally I would have the `Hacking Off` Works done First - Then the DPC Drilling And Injecting - Whether the Drilling would affect the `New` Rendering / Plastering would depend upon the stability of the Walls. `Injecting` - which is really only just `Spraying` the Chemical into the Holes with a Vessel that is Pumped Up - like a `Garden Sprayer` - using a `Nozzle` instead of a `Spray Head` - Should NOT affect anything - as the DPC is `Below Floor Level`- any `Bleed Through` of Chemical would be `Under Floor Level`.

I have NOT seen this Drilling done from inside the Property - mainly because the DPC Level should be Below Floor Level - Imagine the `Disruption` to an Occupied Property - But I expect that there May be circumstances where some of the Drilling would be done from `Inside` - ?? - I am assuming that the fact that I have NOT seen any `Drilling from Inside` was not because I have only seen this done `Incorrectly` ?? - I Doubt it.

The Works `Should Not` affect anything Internally - BUT - A `Lot` of Drilling MIGHT induce `Cracks` in New Sand & Cement - ?? - If You decide to have the `Hacking Off` - Sand & Cement and Plaster Skim done before the DPC - ??

You could have the `Hacking Off` of the Internal Plaster/Sand & Cement done before the Drilling of the Damp Proof Course - that way you can be sure that the `Vibration` from the Drilling will NOT create any Cracks in the `New` Sand & Cement [Internal rendering of Outside Walls] and Plastering [Skim Coat].

Then have the Rendering and Plastering done after the DPC - ??

"Good Luck with the Works".


Regards,


Chris.

 

[D73]

Hi Chris

Well got the keys 2 weeks ago tomorrow. Started as you said. Gutted entire kitchen, one downstairs room and various parts of other affected areas. Plaster on certain parts were very wet indeed. (around walls above boiler) it didnt take much to get it off must admit. All seems to be drying nicely now and started improving after even a few days. Idiots had sealed off all the chimney vents which was never gonna work was it. open now though. Weeks away from any remediation work though which will give time for walls to dry out even more but seems a very nice house with some great old features. Beams are fine etc... just gottaa get ground dropped around house to sort ventilation etc. Still not convinced with Rising Damp. Bottom row of bricks read (on meter) as fine, then 5-6 bricks up show high readings. Builder told me bottom row of bricks would also be wet and there's no obvious sign of damp bricks. Mortar inbetween the bricks shows highish readings but not the bricks them selves in most cases which leads me to believe its the flood was cause. Plus there's obvious issues also that need attention like guttering and flashing which have caused loclized damp problems. Quite enjoyable to see the shell of the house your buying, presume most never get to see if there are hidden problems.

Dave

 

[havasu]

We would all love to see pictures of the transformation. (hint-hint!)

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello Dave",

It sounds like You are in a `Great Position` at last to be able to Identify exactly What needs to be done and what does not - As You said not many People do get to see the Property as `Bare` as you currently have it.

I am glad that You ended up with what you wanted - To Purchase the Property - and I hope that I have been of `Some Help` in giving you some Information and my Opinions.

Obviously that was `Awkward` because I have never seen the Property - But it looks like `All will be O.K.` now - You can `See` what needs to be done.


"Good Luck" with your `Renovation Project` - I hope that You end up with a `Great Home`.


Thanks for keeping Me `Updated` about your Progress - it has been Interesting.


Regards,


Chris.