Help! Utility power blipped off and on 4 or 5 times in 5 minutes. What just happened.

[JEG in Raleigh]

I'm a retired hands-on builder and know a good bit about my well and water system, thanks to help from this forum and particularly, thanks to Valveman. I have an 800' deep well with a Gurndfos 10S10-15 two-wire pump set at around 300'. I have a 44 gallon WellX/Amtrol pressure tank. I have one of Valveman's Cycle Stop Valves on the system and a Cycle Sensor Pump Monitor.

OK.....we just had our utility power blip off and back on again 4 or 5 times in about 5 minutes. The lights dimmed, the TV went off, air fryer that was running blipped off, but all came back on again almost immediately. This cycle repeated 4-5 times during the next 5 minutes. I had just started our washing machine to run a load of clothes and the washing machine was in the process of filling when these power interruptions began. The Cycle Stop Valve had kicked in and the well pump was running continuously to fill the washing machine when these power interruptions began. I was not in the laundry room when the power interruptions were occurring. Within a minute of the last interruption, I turned on the kitchen sink faucet and there was no water. I went into the utility room with the pressure tank and the pressure on the pressure tank read ZERO psi. The pump breaker was not tripped but I flipped the pump breaker on and off and nothing. The Cycle Sensor Pump Monitor was reading 0 amps, indicating that the pump was not running. I did not know what to do next to try to figure out what the problem was. The washing machine looked like it had filled completely for the size of the load I was washing, so I'm guessing that if the pump was not running, the pressure tank drained its contents into the washing machine. Then maybe 5 minutes later, the pump came back on, the pressure tank began to fill and everything is now working properly.

QUESTION: Was it purely bad timing that I was filling the washing machine and the pump was running continuously to do (because of my Cycle Stop Valve) so when the power interruptions happened, and the sequence of power interruptions caused the pump to turn on 4 or 5 times in very short sequence, and as a result, the pump motor overheated and the built in pump thermal overload protection kicked in and prevented the pump from turning back on until it cooled off enough? And after it cooled off enough, it came back on to fill the pressure tank? If that is not what happened, I am completely mystified and would appreciate any advice as to what caused the pressure tank to drain to ZERO psi and caused the pump to not turn on.

Thanks.

 

[havasu]

May be a question which could be answered by @Valveman ?

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

Yes, I'm hoping he'll respond.

 

[Valveman]

Sorry. Been doing retired stuff today, so I was working harder than if I had been at the office.

The restart delay on the Cycle Sensor only works when it trips on Dry Well. But even then, anytime the power comes back on it resets the Cycle Sensor and the pump just starts up again immediately. Even when it trips on Rapid Cycle, when the power is restored it starts all over again. So, this means that the power flickering on and off could still cause enough rapid cycling or low voltage to trip the overload in the motor. When this happens it always seems like the pump just magically came on for no reason after the overload cools down for a minute or three. Sorry for your problem. But hopefully the Cycle Stop Valve and Cycle Sensor have been protecting your pump from everyday abuse so well that it can easily survive just about whatever the electric company wants to throw at you. Lol!

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

Thank you for answering my question. I re-read the documentation on my Cycle Sensor and from what I understood, it did not seem like the Cycle Sensor had anything to do with the problem. I suspected it might be the thermal overload and you've confirmed my suspicion. Thanks very much. If I have a power interruption in the future I'll be more aware of whether or not I have water running so I can throw the breaker to shut off the pump until the power interruptions stabilize. I have been very happy with my Cycle Stop Valve and Cycle Sensor and I'll always be appreciative of the great advice and help you gave me when I had to have my old pump replaced 5 years ago prior to learning about the Cycle Stop Valve.

 

[Twowaxhack]

There are pressure switches that will cut your pump off if the pressure drops too low.
Then you reset it to get power back to the pump.

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

There are pressure switches that will cut your pump off if the pressure drops too low.
Then you reset it to get power back to the pump.

Thank you. I did not know about those types of pressure switches. My pressure switch does not have that feature. It seems that would be a good thing to have. Is there any reason you know of where that type of switch would cause a problem? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to change our my present switch to that type. I have a standard Square-D 40/60 switch now.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Thank you. I did not know about those types of pressure switches. My pressure switch does not have that feature. It seems that would be a good thing to have. Is there any reason you know of where that type of switch would cause a problem? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to change our my present switch to that type. I have a standard Square-D 40/60 switch now.

Some people don’t like them for whatever reason but they serve the intended purpose.

 

[Valveman]

Yes, the low pressure cut off switch with the lever on the side would have prevented the low voltage from tripping the overload. However, they are generally considered more of a nuisance than they are helpful. Most house pumps run much less than 10% of the day. During the 90+% of the day when the pump is off, the flickering power would make no difference as the pressure switch points are open. Only when the pump is running while the power flickers would the low pressure switch been useful. Even then you would have had to go down the the well house an lift that little lever before the house would have water again instead of just waiting 1-3 minutes for the overload to reset. Some people use low pressure switches to protect the pump from running dry. But they are not foolproof in that respect and still give extra nuisance trips. There are better ways, like the Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from dry run.

Most nuisance trips from a low pressure switch are because you had three hoses running and the wife forgot and flushed a toilet. AGH!!! Or, someone forgot and flushed during a power outage. Now you have to go lift that little lever after the power came back on.

I use low pressure kill mainly for mainline breaks. On large systems for golf courses, cattle feed yards and such, a main line break can cause thousands of gallons a minute to be wasted. So, we use low pressure to kill all the pumps. However. there is normally a small pump in the loop designed to keep the pressure up when none of the large pumps are needed, which keeps all the low pressure kill switches from having to be manually reset. Just turn on the small pump, which will pressurize the system above the low pressure kill settings for the other pumps.