getting rid of softener forever! bad idea?

[mike12345]

i have very hard water 20+ gpg. Been using a softener for 10 years. It loud and I am tired of buying salt ... now i need to replace the resin and service the seals and orings in the softner too and that will cost me 300 bucks. Im thinking of bypassing the softener for good instead.

is that a poor idea?

i would like to hear from anyone with experience with hard water and what issues will i encounter if i get rid of my softener forever.

 

[Geofd]

My brother in-law has hard water and won't put a system in an it eats his hot water heaters they lasts about 5 years and I have put new ball valves in at least twice for him

 

[Aggie83]

My well water is 23 gr hard. Moved into the new house in October and by March the toilets were barely running because the float valve was plugged up. Took one out and soaked in vinegar and it worked again. Also, the washing machine and dishwasher were very ashy and building scale. Took off the inlet hose on the washing machine and found a ton of scale build up in the screen filter-- no wonder it took forever to get enough water!

My water softener is installed in the well house, so no noise problem. After six weeks of softened water, things are much better and cleaner.

I really wanted a salt-free softerner, but that was not in the budget. I also wish that potassiumm chloride crystals weren't so darn expensive.

 

[tailgunner]

You are basically out of options. Extremely hard water like yours can only be dealt with by water softening . Otherwise you will be faced with plugged filters, mineral build up in everything using water, poor performance of dishwasher and laundry detergents, coated heating elements and sensors. I could go on, but you get the idea.

 

[mike12345]

Thx for the warnings but im still questioning on how this decision would adversely effect me.
I dont really care about water stains on dishes and i dont see how showering will be so bad with hard water. So my concern is only about the copper plumbing system, the gas water heater and maybe the washing macine/dishwasher.

As it stands, new softener or not, hard water still comes into the house thru my copper pipes and goes thru ball valves including the main shut off and utility meter. I have never seen an issue in that regards. I also have hard water at outside hose bids and they too look uneffected.

Not sure what to think about the washing macine/ dishwasher but in regards to the gas water heater....

I can see how the heating elements of an electric heater might be effected but with a gas heater, wouldnt periodic draining take care of sediment? Other than that what is the issue here?

Theres lots of doom and gloom on the internet about this and lots comw from the water treatment businesses who sell the equipment... i would like to hear from the people that live in the hard water areas that dont use a softener.... surely not everyone has one in these areas, i cant imagine millions are in peril because of this... anyone care to play devils advocate?

 

[Aggie83]

I ruined a washing machine with hard water at my last house. Also, faucets clog up and it 'etches' dinnerware and glassware.

 

[Geofd]

Would the proper bank of filters work for you????? Do you have the option of city water??????

 

[Rushplbg_10]

i have very hard water 20+ gpg. Been using a softener for 10 years. It loud and I am tired of buying salt ... now i need to replace the resin and service the seals and orings in the softner too and that will cost me 300 bucks. Im thinking of bypassing the softener for good instead.

is that a poor idea?

i would like to hear from anyone with experience with hard water and what issues will i encounter if i get rid of my softener forever.

Thx for the warnings but im still questioning on how this decision would adversely effect me.
I dont really care about water stains on dishes and i dont see how showering will be so bad with hard water. So my concern is only about the copper plumbing system, the gas water heater and maybe the washing macine/dishwasher.

As it stands, new softener or not, hard water still comes into the house thru my copper pipes and goes thru ball valves including the main shut off and utility meter. I have never seen an issue in that regards. I also have hard water at outside hose bids and they too look uneffected.

Not sure what to think about the washing macine/ dishwasher but in regards to the gas water heater....

I can see how the heating elements of an electric heater might be effected but with a gas heater, wouldnt periodic draining take care of sediment? Other than that what is the issue here?

Theres lots of doom and gloom on the internet about this and lots comw from the water treatment businesses who sell the equipment... i would like to hear from the people that live in the hard water areas that dont use a softener.... surely not everyone has one in these areas, i cant imagine millions are in peril because of this... anyone care to play devils advocate?

I live in an area that has any where from 18-26ppm hard water. So I know you pian and i get the hassle of a softener. Hard water is terrible on every appliance dishwashers, water heaters, shower valves, faucet cartridges, and for our bodies, dry skin, and flaky hair. As for your water heater once the hard water eates away yoru anode rod it will start to attack your tank. That rod the manufacturer installs last just long enough past your warrenty (usally not that long people just dont check it until the leak apears). And yea sure you can do the recommened and drain your water heater at least once a month but then is that easier then adding a few bags of salt a month idk for you toi decide. But they are other applications then a wasteful softener such as the sonic wave technology, it has came along way. Since you already have copper in the home you basically wrap a coil of wire on a strecth of about 2-3ft of copper closest to wher it comes into the home and plug it in. Valla you have the hard water partials broke down, now is it as effective as a softener, probably not but it will take care of most of it and you want have to hassle anymore. I think you can get them for around $100 give or take maybe $150. Install yourself. I would stilll take your water heater every 6 months to verify. They also make a power anode rod that is the "cats meow". They make your water heater last 10 years longer or more. Hope that helps.

 

[GReynolds929]

Thx for the warnings but im still questioning on how this decision would adversely effect me.
I dont really care about water stains on dishes and i dont see how showering will be so bad with hard water. So my concern is only about the copper plumbing system, the gas water heater and maybe the washing macine/dishwasher.

As it stands, new softener or not, hard water still comes into the house thru my copper pipes and goes thru ball valves including the main shut off and utility meter. I have never seen an issue in that regards. I also have hard water at outside hose bids and they too look uneffected.

Not sure what to think about the washing macine/ dishwasher but in regards to the gas water heater....

I can see how the heating elements of an electric heater might be effected but with a gas heater, wouldnt periodic draining take care of sediment? Other than that what is the issue here?

Theres lots of doom and gloom on the internet about this and lots comw from the water treatment businesses who sell the equipment... i would like to hear from the people that live in the hard water areas that dont use a softener.... surely not everyone has one in these areas, i cant imagine millions are in peril because of this... anyone care to play devils advocate?

Read post #4 again.

 

[pasadena_commut]

A reference point.

Our house water is untreated and is about 200 mg/l CaCO3, which is I think around 11.7 gpg, so about half as bad as the OPs.

The washer and gas water heater are both over 29 years old. It has been necessary to flush the WH frequently as the sediment piles up rapidly, and the anode is changed periodically. The washer problems during that period have mostly been electrical (it is on its 4th lid switch). We did have a problem with one powdered detergent, which formed chalk like deposits in the drum underneath the visible part (below the perforated inner liner), probably in combination with the calcium from the water. These would break off and clunk out the drain line into the sink. Problem resolved by switching to a liquid detergent. Pretty sure that there is some calcium coating the inside of the drum, but it isn't thick and doesn't seem to cause any problems.

We hand wash our dishes and rack dry them. Very little calcium on those. However, the sinks, tub, and shower walls rapidly build up a layer of dried calcium. When I get sick of looking at that it is scraped off the hard parts with a razor blade. The toilet jet holes must be wired out every 6 months or so, and the jet hole at the base also clogs up so that the toilets don't flush well, and has to be cleaned out with some wire too. The flush mechanisms have not been a problem. There is an issue with calcium building up at the bottom of the toilet. I believe that there is a large biological component to that deposit - it glows red when lit with an ultraviolet flashlight, and that glow was eliminated by soaking the toilets with Comet (chlorine) for several hours, which would affect biological matter but not deposited calcium. That treatment made those deposits very dark in ordinary light. A few weeks later the deposits returned to their original color, and once again had the same fluorescence color. It can be dissolved by filling the toilet with acid but it takes a long time to come off. Then the acid is (slowly) neutralized with baking soda before being flushed. The drain pipe is iron so I try not to put acids through. Once a year the shower head is removed and soaked for a few hours in vinegar to clean out its passages. No functional problems due to calcium in the faucets, although they can get dusty looking from deposits.

A little bit of calcium builds up on the sprinkler heads but seems not to affect their performance. Usually what clogs those are tiny rocks or bits of rust. The sprinkler valves (mostly brass ones) don't seem to care how hard the water is. However, the black flow valve in the brass valve bodies can occasionally (once a decade?) stick. At that interval the plastic and rubber in the moving part is aging badly anyway, plus they have some calcium build up, so it is hard to say definitively which of the two problems finally causes them to stick.

In short, hard water at this level causes minor issues for us. Maintaining a soft water system would likely be just as much work, or more, than dealing with the calcium. If I had to choose just one aspect of the hard water to magic away, it would be the deposits in the WH, as ours is in the middle of the house, so flushing it involves running garden hoses through the house over the wood floor.