Gases for soldering - MAP vs LPG vs Propane

[bawldiggle]

I have a Bernzomatic MAP//Pro torch and (yellow) MAPP gas bottle.

I have been told I can use the MAP gas torch with LPG/Propane gas.
- but not a LPG/Propane torch with MAP gas.

I am confused as to what is the difference between LPG and PROPANE ... if at all. I haven't been able to get to a retailer yet to get some amateurish advice ... especially "I guess you can". The "guess" is what concerns me.

On a current project (at home) Failing lead-less solder joins I think the MAP gas is too hot (I am operating in a very confined crawl space beneath the floor)

I am considering using a cooler gas to avoid overheating difficult access joints. Because I think I have been overheating the work and burning the flux off.

1. are LPG and Propane one in the same (in some quarters LPG is a generic term)
2. my scant knowledge is that Propane/LPG maxes out at about 600°C and MAP gas is about 2000°C+

I have tried silver soldering with LPG/Propane in the past and just not enough heat, but I can easilly silver solder with MAP gas

Would appreciate any advice ... thank you

 

[frodo]

lpg and propane are the same thing.

your problem is not the torch, You are using to much heat and burning up your fittings.

also,,cleanleness

your pipe and fittings MUST be clean, if not the solider wil not take.

when the solider starts to flow, get the torch off of the fitting.

the amount of solider you use for a 1/2'' fitting...is a piece 1/2'' long

for 3/4'' pipe, its 3/4'' long.

what flux are you using? for a beginner I recomend C-Flux if you have a leak with that flux,It's because you forgot to solider it LOL

http://screencast.com/t/6U9K6yryofM

 

[Matt30]

This again? Pretty sure it was answered in your last thread.

 

[bawldiggle]

@ frodo

Thank you for clearing up my confusion over LPG vs Propane.
Did a lot of homework last evening until 1am -- into gases.
Found some good history info and Youtube comparing MAP gas and Propane/LPG.
- and properties, limitations,

Different countries/cultures use different expressions. You have fawcets we have taps.
- North America and Europe freeze your butts off in winter, we put on a T-Shirt.

By the look of it C-Flux is for silver/lead soldering. I am using lead-free solder.
CORRECTION: tin/lead ... not silver/lead


@ Matt30
My question (here) was "I am confused as to what is the difference between LPG and PROPANE (is)"
My other thread has got more complex than I ever intended
- on forums where I am a helper "we" encourage to keep questions simple -- assumed I should do so here too.
- thought it best to create a new thread to keep it simple for other learners

 

[Matt30]

so the days of the human ferret aren't over?

 

[bawldiggle]

OFF TOPIC

Plumbers knee -- in one of them -- knees that is !
Getting olde sucks !

The mind is willing but the body is weak -- and then there is always tomorrow.
Crawling over broken bricks, pieces of terracotta roof tiles, broken bottles, and unidentifiable sharp bits took their revenge on my left knee.

Actually tackling the last difficult solder fitting is like a nervous first date.
I am desparate for "it" ... the anticipation is making my hands sweat.

Found ONE 26 year old solder ring fitting in my box of treasures. Cannot buy them here in OZ any more.

Tempted away from the soldering today by a friend I haven't seen in two years.
Given the choice of grovelling around in the mud and sharp debris versus good company in the warm sun ... it's a no brainer.

There is always ...tomorrow

 

[frodo]

@ frodo

Thank you for clearing up my confusion over LPG vs Propane.
Did a lot of homework last evening until 1am -- into gases.
Found some good history info and Youtube comparing MAP gas and Propane/LPG.
- and properties, limitations,

Different countries/cultures use different expressions. You have fawcets we have taps.
- North America and Europe freeze your butts off in winter, we put on a T-Shirt.

By the look of it C-Flux is for silver/lead soldering. I am using lead-free solder.


@ Matt30
My question (here) was "I am confused as to what is the difference between LPG and PROPANE (is)"
My other thread has got more complex than I ever intended
- on forums where I am a helper "we" encourage to keep questions simple -- assumed I should do so here too.
- thought it best to create a new thread to keep it simple for other learners

OH, contraire mon frere, I Think maybe your goofoo powers are a tad bit weak.
try your search ,one more again I have been using c-flux for 30 years
I assure you, it is NOT for silver soldering

I have used it on 50/50, 60/40, 40/60, 95/5, and lead free many many many dare I say it again, MANY times

http://screencast.com/t/ElqOilhag

read the sentence under "application"

I have POWERFULL GOOFOODOO

 

[bawldiggle]

By the look of it C-Flux is for silver/lead soldering. I am using lead-free solder.

My typo ... should read "tin/lead" ... sorry about that
So C-Flux is ok for lead-free soldering ?

Thanks for the reminder too. A good specs sheet.

 

[frodo]

it says lead free. in the characteristics yes , it's fine and dandy to use
if you have a leak using it,,your just fugging up.

here is a tip,,,when solidering, if it looks like your fitting is getting to hot, brush flux on the fitting,cool it down,get the heat of

in the mid 80's when lead solider was outlawed. the inspectors had a spray bottle of some chemical.
if you were using lead it turned colors and you would get a red tag...stop work and fix order.

 

[bawldiggle]

I am in Australia. Leaded solder has not been outlawed here ... well, not in my state (yet?)
In the city I live in there are about 10 plumbing dedicated retailers, and only one knew of lead-free solder ... and they have only one plumber who buys lead free.

I only learnt of lead-free solder on USA forums.
C-Flux I cannot locate in Australia, so far. I will send an email to C-Flux USA and ask for a distributor here in OZ ... if I get a reply.!

Fittings brushes were the same problem. Not a single plumbing outlet here knows what a fittings brush is, or what it is for.

But then it is a world of lego-plumbing ... plastic.

 

[frodo]

amazon.com

View attachment 7822

try again time one more


amazon.com australia
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_6?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=c-flux&sprefix=c-flux%2Caps%2C205&rh=n%3A228013%2Ck%3Ac-flux

 

[bawldiggle]

@ frodo

Cannot open/find the file at http://www.plumbingforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7822.