Float lever sticking & power to jet pump problem

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Thanks, Valveman. I'll have to look at the tanks available. I know I saw something at Lowes. I'd like to re-use as much as possible.

For now we added a shutoff between the pressure tank and the other plumbing because it was pushing water when the shutoff was on and we needed to do repairs on some lines after it. I'll post pics of the current setup later. It can all be altered at another point.

Didn't have any pex elbows and couldn't get pipe to bend at enough of an angle in a short run to reach where we needed so ended up using a pex tee and a cap on one end. Might consider adding a new hose bib and using that end so it doesn't go to waste.
 
The fix for now:
1672782089362.png
@Valveman with the CSV would a 4.6 gallon tank be sufficient for 3 bathroom groups, a high efficiency washing machine, and the kitchen sink?

As an aside, the check valve that was installed by the well serviceman on the inlet side of the jet pump is leaking. No shutoffs before it so I need to figure out a way to add a shutoff and fix it somehow.

View attachment leakingpipeinpumphousejan2023.mp4
 
At 40/60 yes the 4.5 gallon size tank is large enough when used with a CSV. But with a large house and 3 baths or if you want higher pressure like 50/70 the 10 gallon size tank would be best. Really won't make much difference with a jet pump either way.

The only tank I would recommend from a box store is the Water Worker brand because it is an Amtrol like the WX series.

Yes, that check valve needs replacing. It is a good idea to have a ball valve on the discharge of a cistern. That way the line can be closed off to work on the pump or plumbing. Without a ball valve you will not be able to keep the cistern from draining out if there is a leak anywhere in the system. Also, the high spot in the suction line where the check valve is located is not a good idea. Air gets trapped in the high spot and can cause a loss of prime and a melted pump. The pump itself needs to be the high spot in any suction line.
 
If I stick with 30/50 would the 4.6 gallon be enough? I saw this one: https://www.lowes.com/pd/A-O-Smith-4-6-Gallon-Vertical-Pressure-Tank/1000565599. I'm not sure if I'd trust a tank off of Amazon but I haven't really looked. I'm considering getting this bracket to hold it (or whatever tank I get if the diameter is 13" or smaller) https://www.lowes.com/pd/HoldRite-Q...er-Expansion-Tank-Mounting-Bracket/1001067060

The tank I linked has a 3/4" outlet/inlet so it would be the same size as the main piping.

I could reinforce with pressure treated wood (that I will cover with latex paint) and mount it to the wall of the shed. Although, I'd want some support all the way to the floor just in case the wall bends more. It's thin steel so it bends fairly easily. I'm thinking of mounting some pressure treated 2x4s on the walls and then putting up Reflectix to better insulate the shed. Eventually I'd like to build a new shed.

I'd want the tank to be out of the way reaching the jet pump so maintenance can be done. So, I'm thinking the upper left corner (in the photo) mounted at a height where the knob on the top can still be accessed would be good.
 
The only tank I would recommend from a box store is the Water Worker brand because it is an Amtrol like the WX series.

Yes, at 30/50 the 4.5 gallon size tank is plenty when using a CSV. The 4.5 gallon size tank only holds 1 gallon of water. So, it doesn't weigh very much. You can either wall mount the tank with a little bracket or just use a 1X6 metal nipple sticking up from the pump, which is strong enough to hold the tank and controls.
Jet pump and PK1A.jpeg
 
I think I'll stick with my current tank but I may move it. I'm thinking of building a stand/shelf for it in the corner and making sure it is steady. I can make adjustment to the other pipes as needed. I do need to address the leak from the check valve-- which really shouldn't be in that spot. I wish I could install the foot valve I got but I can't even get the lid up high enough to get into the cistern and there's no way I can climb in there even if I could while my shoulder is still so messed up. I'd have to let the cistern drain completely before doing anything-- which is why I'm thinking of putting a hose bib on the capped end of the tee later on. Might help to be able to empty stuff out until I can get a new shutoff on there.
 
I would be surprised if the bladder in that fiberglass tank is still good. You should double check it before re-installing. There are ways to freeze the pipe to block the water off. There are Cryogenic companies in the oil field for doing just that. But I doubt you could get it to freeze with a leak like that. It needs to be fixed as even a little 1 GPM leak is wasting 1440 gallons everyday.
 
You don’t need some complicated dance to stop the water, just turn off the power to the pump, open the lowest faucet till no more water comes out, and you’ve depressurized the system. While you have it open, check the precharge on the tank. Unless you have some kind of artesian well and the water coming into the pump is under pressure?
 
wpns said:
You don’t need some complicated dance to stop the water, just turn off the power to the pump, open the lowest faucet till no more water comes out, and you’ve depressurized the system. While you have it open, check the precharge on the tank. Unless you have some kind of artesian well and the water coming into the pump is under pressure?
Click to expand...
I think he is drawing from a cistern and doesn't want the cistern to be emptied in the process. But until a ball valve is added to the discharge from the cistern there isn't much choice.
 
OK, if there's positive pressure, then the above doesn't work.

Is the cistern pipe accessible in any other way? Can you put a plug in the suction line inside the cistern, or if it goes up and over the wall, is there a priming plug you could remove to break the vacuum, or something?

I SCUBA dive in my 40K gallon cistern yearly to pull the filters for cleaning and do other maintenance, but that's not for everyone. 8*)
 
Plugging the pipe from the inside of the cistern is a good idea if you can reach it or Scuba to it. Lol! They make inflatable packers you could stick in there and when you air it up it seals the pipe. A balloon would work if it doesn't get popped.
 
I can't even get the lid lifted enough to get in to the cistern. I have no idea how the well service guy got in there. The fill pipe is attached to the top of the cistern and I don't know how to disconnect it without breaking it. Then there is the matter of actually getting inside, which my fat behind can't do. Especially not with my messed up rotator cuff. I can't pull myself up and the bottom of the cistern is actually below the level of the ground around it.
But yeah, the cistern empties even when the pump is turned off. If I want to work on the pump or before the pump, the cistern will pour water out. The main issue with that is I can't find any pvc cement that will work water is actively pouring out. The pressure from inside the cistern pushes the water pretty hard.

Is there some sort of dielectric grease or something I can put on the pipe threads to go from stainless steel to brass? I think the PVC is too weak to make a good seal with the brass check valve. I'd like to have more stainless steel piping going to the check valve. I believe that stainless steel and brass can corrode if they are in contact with each other longterm.
 
If the check valve hadn't cost something like $160 I'd consider it, but I don't want to throw away something that expensive if it can still be used. Ok, so teflon tape in between. Might use pipe tope on the female threads too. I'll have to see what SS parts are available to connect to the check valve.
I found a push-fit shutoff that I think can be put on while the water is splurting out. I really need to find a way to have a switch that shuts off the pumps independently of one another-- so jet pump can run to lower cistern level without other pump refilling. Or turn off jet pump while other is running to fill cistern.
Thanks!

So, the plan:
Add shutoff to vertical pipe coming out of the cistern
Get SS parts to connect in to check valve
Raise jet pump up so inlet pipes don't go above it
Replace galvanized steel with SS
Get new pressure gauge

For now I will leave my pressure tank in place but if I need to replace it in the future I want to move it.

How do I check to see if it is good again? Something about the thing at the top?

Edit: If it is bad, would a 20gallon tank work? I know it's 2 less than the current one but I didn't see 22gallon ones for sale. Saw this Wel-trol (amtrol 202 wx) one with pipes attached on Amazon. Not sure how the pressure switch thing would work. Would I still need the one on the jet pump if I went with this setup?
https://www.amazon.com/Well-x-trol-Amtrol-PRESSURE-BRASS-SQUARE/dp/B014EFWG8U/1673251705301.png1673251716999.png
 
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With PVC pipe you won't have to worry about corrosion or electrolysis from dissimilar metals. But SS to brass is not a problem.

Yeah both pumps need their own breaker.

Not much difference in a 20 or 22 gallon pressure tank, they both hold only about 5 gallons of water. That WX202 is one of the best tanks made. But you can get a 20 gallon size Water Worker brand that is made by the same company and looks and works just as well for much less money.
 
Thanks. I suppose if it is going to have to be replaced in a few years anyway, the WellTrol would be ok. I was thinking of putting a water heater stand in there (supported/leveled with concrete blocks. My main issue with the pvc is that it seems to break/leak more. Although, I have some small leaks from the stainless steel bc the service guy rotated them so they are not tight anymore when he put the pipe back above the level of the jet pump. If I move the pump up, the pipe should go down. If I cut off everything above the new shutoff, I can re-do it (with pump higher up) so the pipe is below the level of the pump instead. I wonder if a plant stand will hold the jet pump. LOL. I can put antivibration mat under it on top of a plant stand-- so long as the stand doesn't impede the pipes.
So, something like this for the pump (making it easier to reach/access) https://www.amazon.com/keebgyy-Elegantly-Designed-Rust-Resistant-Greenery/dp/B093774F61/
1673464460065.png
Water heater stand for the pressure tank
1673464563809.png
I can hit both with Rustoleum paint to protect them from the water. Just need to figure out where to place things. I can have them side by side and bridge the gaps with 1" PEX.

Cutting off the pipe after a main shutoff would also let me move the jet pump over more. Since I need to replace all the stuff coming out of it with stainless steel instead of galvanized, I will have more options. From the pressure tank I can go back to 1" PEX and then to the PVC I have in there already. The first tee going to pex is removable/reusable.

I need to take measurements and come up with sketches.
 
The cistern is at least 200 gallons so it has some oomf in terms of pushing water. But point taken. I wish I had welding skills to make my own shorter platform. Water would flow down from the pump to the tank and then the tank will push water out to the lines below it. Right now the tank is below the level of the other waterlines.
 
I still haven't moved anything but I'm having a problem. The pump stopped pumping about a week ago but lifting up on the power cable for it got it started again. A few days later it happened again. Then it happened last night, then again a few hours later, and just again this afternoon. So 3x in the past 24hrs. I don't know if its the cable or the pressure switch. I don't think its the pressure tank because I doubt lifting the cable would do anything. Maybe the cable needs to be making better connection and needs to be tethered so it hangs up more? I don't know. I haven't actually looked at the pump. Just pulled on the cable and my view was blocked by the cistern. It rapidly made noises like it was turning and off again, even when I had a tap open in the kitchen. I'm going to try elevating the cable first to see if that helps-- having it so it stays up. If that doesn't work, I wonder if I need a new switch.

If the pump hadn't stopped when it wasn't freezing outside, I would have thought it was the freezing (got down to 30) but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
It sounds to me like you have a bad connection in the pressure control switch, if I understand you correctly, and you need to fix this soon or it could damage your pump. Check all connections and then clean the points in the switch. When I wire a 120 volt pump, I only use one set of points, breaking the hot wire. then the other set of points are there for a spare when the ones in use fail.
 
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