Condensation issue ? (I think)

[Andrew Rivera]

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and am in need of some advice concerning my current DIY project. Let me give you guys some back ground first.

I live on a slab and was in the process of replacing my laminate floors in my den when I noticed a small puddle of water on my floor, underneath the moisture barrier:

At this point I stopped the new laminate install and started to try and figure out where this water was coming from. The cement was warm/hot in that area so I figured it was a hot water pipe, so at this point I placed a plastic bag over the area and taped it down. The next morning when I removed the bag the bag was wet and I had wet spots on the floor:


Having had an issue before with a hot water pipe bursting and destroying my laminate floor in the living room, I am very wary about laying down the new laminate before I figure out where this moisture is coming from. I checked the water meter and I didn't notice it moving at all when the water is off in the house. So I figured I need to look at the pipe and give it a visual inspection and I proceeded to jack hammer the floor to see if I had a slow leak under my slab.

I jack hammered about 8 Ft. of cement:

This is where I am starting to feel lost

I don't see a leak of any sort, I did notice the sand around the pipe was moist and warm to hot but this makes sense because it is a hot water pipe.

I placed another plastic bag over the exposed pipe, taped it down and this morning of course it was very wet because of the condensation from the pipe.

My question is at this point how do I fix this ?

My only idea is to:

1. Replace the exposed pipe with "PEX" . (If you looked at the 1st thumbnail the pipe was already fixed at some point with "PEX", I was thinking of just cutting the pipe at the far end and running "PEX")
2. Seal the cement with "cement moisture sealer"

And continue with the laminate install.

Any suggestion, comments or ideas are welcomed ...

Thanks

 

[Geofd]

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and am in need of some advice concerning my current DIY project. Let me give you guys some back ground first.

I live on a slab and was in the process of replacing my laminate floors in my den when I noticed a small puddle of water on my floor, underneath the moisture barrier:View attachment 17184

At this point I stopped the new laminate install and started to try and figure out where this water was coming from. The cement was warm/hot in that area so I figured it was a hot water pipe, so at this point I placed a plastic bag over the area and taped it down. The next morning when I removed the bag the bag was wet and I had wet spots on the floor:
View attachment 17186

Having had an issue before with a hot water pipe bursting and destroying my laminate floor in the living room, I am very wary about laying down the new laminate before I figure out where this moisture is coming from. I checked the water meter and I didn't notice it moving at all when the water is off in the house. So I figured I need to look at the pipe and give it a visual inspection and I proceeded to jack hammer the floor to see if I had a slow leak under my slab.

I jack hammered about 8 Ft. of cement:View attachment 17187 View attachment 17188

This is where I am starting to feel lost

I don't see a leak of any sort, I did notice the sand around the pipe was moist and warm to hot but this makes sense because it is a hot water pipe.

I placed another plastic bag over the exposed pipe, taped it down and this morning of course it was very wet because of the condensation from the pipe.

My question is at this point how do I fix this ?

My only idea is to:

1. Replace the exposed pipe with "PEX" . (If you looked at the 1st thumbnail the pipe was already fixed at some point with "PEX", I was thinking of just cutting the pipe at the far end and running "PEX")
2. Seal the cement with "cement moisture sealer"

And continue with the laminate install.

Any suggestion, comments or ideas are welcomed ...

Thanks

i think you have a leak....i live in an area were there are lots of slabs if the floor was warm and wet...it was either your radiant heat or domestic hot water...if you have it exposed get rid of as much copper as possible

 

[Andrew Rivera]

Thanks Geofd ....

I plan to jack hammer again as much as possible so that I can replace the copper, I'm just having an issue trying to locate the leak ???

I also posted in another forum, where I was informed that the water that gathers on the plastic when I cover the whole is evaporation not condensation (duh ... lol)

So now I have to found out where the water that is evaporating is coming from ...

 

[havasu]

This occurs to too many houses in my area. I highly recommend eliminating all in slab Plumbing and route it up and over to its destination. It's only a matter of time when a leak will occur, not if it occurs.

 

[Andrew Rivera]

Thanks havasu ...

But that just isn't an option right now, at some point we would like to re-route everything out of the floor and maybe through the walls.

 

[Geofd]

i think you have a leak....i live in an area were there are lots of slabs if the floor was warm and wet...it was either your radiant heat or domestic hot water...if you have it exposed get rid of as much copper as possible

havasu is right....but do what you can ....

 

[TomFOhio]

Andrew, you need to find where the water is coming from. If you change the pipe shown then make darn sure
that you have no more water. Wait a few days to see. I hate to see you put your new floor down and then
have to take it back up because of moisture coming up again.

 

[havasu]

Get a moisture meter and check out your floors. Also, you may find that unless your landscaping drains away from your property, the concrete will wick up wetness from the exterior.

 

[Andrew Rivera]

Ok, so this is a rough diagram of my den:


Where you see the blue highlight is where water pools during a rain storm, where the hot water pipe is where I am having the moisture issue.

I know without distance it is hard to say but I would estimate that the pooled water is about 22 Ft from where the hot water pipe is located.

Is it feasible to say that the moisture I am getting on the pipe is from the pooled rain water ?
Attached Thumbnails

 

[havasu]

Pooled water will follow the path of least resistance. Drain the water away, let it dry, and recheck.

 

[TomFOhio]

Do you have boiler piping under the floor in that area.

 

[johnkowen2003]

I have just been through this. Warm water coming through the concrete screed. The problem is that the lime in the concrete attacks copper pipes. We broke out the area to find water but no evidence of a leak. The water was running slowly on the underside of the central heating pipes and difficult to see. Following the pipes we eventually found a leak but there was more water running from further up the pipe. We found another leak. We cut out a section of pipe to find it was paper thin. The decision we had to make was do we try to patch up the pipework or rerun through the loft with drops. We chose the latter costing about £4000. The alternative was to patch knowing that all the pipework in the screeds were likely to fail. If your leak is in the hot water pipe as opposed to central heating it shouldn't be that cost. I would certainly look at reruns or you will be constantly waiting for the next leak.

 

[Andrew Rivera]

TomFOhio .... I believe that is the radiant heat pipe, I will sure this weekend when I break concrete all the way to the source which should be the base broad unit about 3 Ft away.

Thanks johnkowen2003 - I plan to jack hammer the complete pipe run, which I hope ends about 3 Ft away at the base broad. Unfortunately I will not be able to do a rerun at this time, I'm in the middle of a renovation and this is an unexpected issue which I'm trying to resolve myself because most of my money is in the renovation

That being said what I plan to do for now is jack hammer the concrete following the pipe exposing all of it and swapping out the copper for PEX, than I will deal with the pooling rain water outside.

 

[Geofd]

have you tried shutting of the cold water feed to you tankless......check your meter when the house is at rest...if its spinning shut off the cold feed to your tankless...if the meter stops is you domestic hot water...then try....the cold feed to your boiler....that will tell you what it is....