Basement Sewage Ejector Sporadically Failing

[Daniel Galtieri]

Our home has a basement bathroom that is not used very frequently (maybe a few times a week).

This past Sunday evening we found a large pool of water in our basement around what I now know to be a drain for our HVAC condenser unit to the sewage ejector pit/crock for the bathroom basement.

This is this drain hole I'm referring to

We purchased this home a few months ago. When we did our inspection, we checked that the sewage ejector pump was working, which it was, and we haven't had any issues until this past weekend. In trying to troubleshoot what caused the water I again checked to see if the ejector was working by running the water in the bathroom and waiting for it to go off, which it did.

Thinking it was working fine, I cleaned up the water and moved on to my next (now obvious silly) hypothesis that the drain pipe itself was clogged. I went through the process of "unclogging" it, and thinking that was the issue moved on believing everything was fine.

Unfortunately this morning I came downstairs to again find a pool of water in the same room around that same hole. Between Sunday and today the bathroom has maybe been used two or three times (shower was run briefly, and toilet flushed once or twice).

This time, when flushing the toilet (before entirely cleaning up the mess), I saw water actively backing up.

Digging in to what issues might affect an ejector pump, I tried running the pump directly by plugging the float switch (right term?) in to the outlet. Pump ran fine, crock emptied. OK great, it's the float switch, right? Not so fast..

Wanting to make sure that that is the issue, I've been running the water for almost an hour now and the pump has gone off several times and no water has backed up - everything seems to be working fine.

I have not opened up the crock and looked at the pump yet, mainly because I'm not sure what I should be looking for at this point since everything, from a functionality standpoint, seems to be fine.

The electrical aspect of the pump also seems fine. It's on its own circuit, with nothing else plugged in to the outlet. I have not checked the draw from the plug though.

I also know it's not a clog in the pipe from the drain hole in the floor to the crock, since I can pour water in to the drain hole and hear it emptying in the crock (they're in the same room).

TL;DR: Sewage ejector has failed twice (water backed up in to basement), but seems to be working fine at the moment.


Any input on what I should do next or what might be going on would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edit:
Here's a picture of the ejector system / piping that goes off when I either run the bathroom shower / flush toilet or put water down that drain hole:

https://imgur.com/a/X6Quri9

 

[PlumbGate]

I'll go out on a limb here and say there is no way that is a toilette ejector. The toilette ejector is a closed system and doesn't just drain from your "crock" - I think that is what you are calling your sump well right? If it did, you'd have raw sewage in your basement. Do you smell raw sewage? That well is your sump and drains your A/C units and any ground water that may accumulate. A toilette ejector also comes on every time you flush the toilette. I'd remove the cover and see what is going on in your sump well.

 

[Daniel Galtieri]

I'll go out on a limb here and say there is no way that is a toilette ejector. The toilette ejector is a closed system and doesn't just drain from your "crock" - I think that is what you are calling your sump well right? If it did, you'd have raw sewage in your basement. Do you smell raw sewage? That well is your sump and drains your A/C units and any ground water that may accumulate. A toilette ejector also comes on every time you flush the toilette. I'd remove the cover and see what is going on in your sump well.

I had initially thought that this pipe must go to our sump (which we also have), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Whether this system was built incorrectly, I do not know. What I do know is that when I pour water down that hole I hear it entering the same tank/holding container (whatever the correct term is) that I hear water entering when I flush the toilet and/or run the faucet/shower in the basement bathroom.

Our sump is on the opposite corner of the basement (same exterior wall), but it doesn't seem like that drain hole goes to the sump.

As to the smell of the water, yes it is very pungent - that's actually how we initially found out, we came home Sunday afternoon and there was this terribly smell when we first walked in from the garage. Going down in to the basement I then found the large pool of water mentioned.


Edit:

So I was curious to check if maybe I was mistaken, but it definitely seems like that hole in the floor goes to the same system that the bathroom goes to. I grabbed a hose and put enough water in to that hole to set off the ejector. This is the same ejector that goes off when I run the shower / flush the toilet in the bathroom.

 

[mike fiore]

one thing you can check is the check valve that should be installed above pit . it stops water from coming back into pit. it could be stuck open and allowing any pumped water to come back into pit.

 

[Daniel Galtieri]

one thing you can check is the check valve that should be installed above pit . it stops water from coming back into pit. it could be stuck open and allowing any pumped water to come back into pit.

Right, this was my next thing to check. What's odd to me though is that the pump does seem to be emptying the tank. As I mentioned, I ran the water for over on hour, and the ejector worked fine (tank filled, ejector went off, tank emptied, tank filled, etc.). If the check valve wasn't working would the water flow back down in to the tank immediately?

 

[Diehard]

So if I understand the symptoms correctly, the sump pump fails to start sometimes, for unknown reason. But it started every time you activated the float manually.
I had a motor once that occasionally failed to start and then started another time. I was told there may be a dead spot on the motors armature. In fact in my case if I tapped the motor it would start. Similar to what I used to do to my cars starter motor many years ago, which had similar symptoms.

Just a shot in the dark, for your consideration.
Also, you may want to try calling some pump manufacturers and ask the question. Doesn't have to be the same manufacturer of your pump.

 

[Daniel Galtieri]

So if I understand the symptoms correctly, the sump pump fails to start sometimes, for unknown reason. But it started every time you activated the float manually.
I had a motor once that occasionally failed to start and then started another time. I was told there may be a dead spot on the motors armature. In fact in my case if I tapped the motor it would start. Similar to what I used to do to my cars starter motor many years ago, which had similar symptoms.

Just a shot in the dark, for your consideration.
Also, you may want to try calling some pump manufacturers and ask the question. Doesn't have to be the same manufacturer of your pump.

When you say started manually what do you mean? I plugged the pump directly in to the wall (rather than piggy-backed on top of the float switch) once to confirm that the pump would run and empty the tank. I then plugged the pump back in to the same place I had found it, and just turned on the faucet / shower / flushed the toilet to fill the tank up, at which point the pump was (presumably) triggered by the float reaching its threshold height. I repeated this procedure of causing the tank to fill several times, and each time the ejector activated correctly.

However, this morning when I found the puddle of water in the room and flushed the toilet, the ejector did not activate (instead the water flowed back up and in to the room out of the drain hole in the floor, since the tank was already full). It has worked every time since then, though.

 

[mike fiore]

Right, this was my next thing to check. What's odd to me though is that the pump does seem to be emptying the tank. As I mentioned, I ran the water for over on hour, and the ejector worked fine (tank filled, ejector went off, tank emptied, tank filled, etc.). If the check valve wasn't working would the water flow back down in to the tank immediately?

yes you would hear it pouring back in.

 

[Daniel Galtieri]

yes you would hear it pouring back in.

OK, that's what I thought. That's definitely not happening, at least not any of the times I've tested it today.

 

[FishScreener]

Check to be sure there isn’t something that the float switch is getting hung up on.

 

[Diehard]

Okay so it sounds like either the float switch fails to allow the current to flow to the pump plug on occasion or it does but the pump is not starting on occasion.
The first thing I would do is open the sump to check what type of float or sensor you have that triggers the pump to start. If a float, make sure it clear of any possible obstruction that could be preventing it from rising or tilting properly. If that looks okay then I would trouble shoot for a possible failure of the power getting to the pump plug. Of course this would mean waiting until a malfunction occurs.
I appears that what you have for control is the first plug into the wall outlet is the float plug. When the float rises, it completes the circuit allowing the electricity to flow to the pump plug that's plugged into it.
Verifying power to this point should be determined by any means possible. For example a plug that illuminates when power goes to it, could be inserted between the 2 plugs.(when light is on it means the float has activated the outlet and power is being sent to the pump plug. A short extension with a lighted plug could be used if you can't get a light 3-prong connector. A multi-meter would be difficult to use to check if power was getting to the pump plug since the plug would have to be pulled out a little, which could break the circuit.
In any case if you determine that it indeed is being powered to the pump plug but the pump isn't running then of course you've at least narrowed it down to the pump.
I don't know what type of contact(s) are involved in the float circuit but they could be sticking or failing when infrequently used. So when you test it with water continuously it performs every time.

Curious...How many toilet flushes does it take to start the pump after the sump has been pumped down to it's normal low level?

 

[mike fiore]

OK, that's what I thought. That's definitely not happening, at least not any of the times I've tested it today.

then most likely you will have to open pit up and find the float switch is intermittently getting stuck in down position. nasty job but fairly simple. if youre going to open it i would buy new float switch with piggy back plug and replace old one. buy a box of latex gloves.

 

[Geofd]

whats the age of the pump....???????

 

[Geofd]

whats the age of the pump....???????

if you find its olderyou may want replace all...then you know all is new....there are also kits that supply houses sell a ball valve,check valve so you can valve off the pump and check valve to work on I did the same to mine the pump was 15 yearsold now I know the age and condition of everything

 

[breplum]

I highly recommend (insist with new installations) a high water alarm.
It is simply an additional float switch and a small alarm box. You mount the new float higher than the main float switch.

Also, I don't see the required main shutoff valve on your pumped line. There is supposed to be one for good reason. Check valves fail and it is how you service the check valve.

I also recommend the clear/quiet check valves. You can see what's up and they are quiet-er.