Why aren't bathrooms encapsulated?

[cgilley]

Roll with me here as a thought process. In two months, I'm about to start renovating two bathrooms that have been "childrened" to death. One of the bathrooms is alleged to have some subfloor rot, the other has had leaks before. For context, about 2 years ago, I had my master bathroom renovated, and of course, when they put in the new shower they put in a shower pan - the rubber thing that prevents the porous grout from leaking all over your sealing below. It occurred to me that the exact same concept should be applied to the entire bathroom area (and I'm including to the studs. Think of it as a bathroom pan.

Item 1: hadn't even finised an addition, 4 year old playing in her new sink, left the water on. It overflowed, and I still have the ceiling stain. Water just ran between the subfloor (we weren't done with the bathroom yet).
Item 2: same bathroom, the shower valve started leaking, down the back wall, ceiling stain #2.
Item 3: other bathroom, who needs a shower curtain? Garage celling stain.

In all of my years owning and working on homes, it seems to me that it would be relatively trivial to prevent water from leaving a bathroom. Thoughts?

 

[havasu]

I know many European bathrooms are self contained using a rubberized membrane, with the drain in the center of the room. You can crap, bathe and shower all within one room. Our friends love Italy so they mimicked this design with their own master bathroom and it is great, but cost them $250K.

 

[cgilley]

I know many European bathrooms are self contained using a rubberized membrane, with the drain in the center of the room. You can crap, bathe and shower all within one room. Our friends love Italy so they mimicked this design with their own master bathroom and it is great, but cost them $250K.

Me thinks they got a bit more than rubberization.

I'll have to do more research.

 

[havasu]

This is an upstairs master bath. They had to demo it out, brace it, then added rubber, then poured concrete. It all slopes to the center of the room with a small hidden channel drain. Of course, they added a high end soaking tub and a toilet that does it all. High end European fixtures are mighty pricey these days.

 

[Twowaxhack]

In an ideal world every bathroom floor would be waterproof and have a floor drain.

That costs money that most people will not pay.

Have the money you say ? Then get busy having it built.

Oh you’re handy ? Then get to work.

 

[Ludington]

In my master bath, I originally went wall to wall with a nice 1 piece vinyl (40 years ago), everything went on top of that, cabinets, one piece shower unit. (The kind you step in and it is like a small cave, cieling in it and all) then later came the hint.. "ooo, that tile looks nice in the bathroom on tv", so down went the the cement board and tile, on top of the vinyl . It's kind of the same idea, protect the wood underneath. I don't worry about under the shower unit.. allthough I do peek under it once in a while.
So, I'm with you, lay down some type of water barrier. Not sure if that's bad for the plywood underneath...
And whoever gets my house after I'm dead andbrips out my one piece shower and cabinets for a redo, will just shake thier head and say good grief another DIY....

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

In an ideal world every bathroom floor would be waterproof and have a floor drain.

That costs money that most people will not pay.

Have the money you say ? Then get busy having it built.

Oh you’re handy ? Then get to work.

Since most bathrooms have tile floors, it’s not that much of a stretch to waterproof underneath it. And not that expensive relative to total build cost these days. The builders are so flipping cheap. It is ungodly.

One thing I’m running into now is these clueless idiots who called themselves builders using MDF trim in the bathroom! What moron would ever think this is a good idea? They should have their license taken away. As soon as water hits that it turns into a sponge and is destroyed. I have already replaced a lot of that as a handyman. Boggles the mind.

 

[Ed O'Connell]

My lovely lady has M.S. She walks with a brace on her left leg and can't use her left arm, so a so-called "handicap" shower was in order when I remodeled her batth. We did exactly what you described and I'd do this with any bathroom in the future. // Of course we installed a shower drain then "built" a small rise - a very small rise - and added a floor drain to the middle of the bath. We did the above to avoid having any kind of shower "enclosure" other than the 3 walls, even added electric floor heating. Work was done about 7 years ago and not a single leak problem from below. // Cost? The idea of "price" drives me out of my mind! How do I EVER rate an ROI vs. M'Lady's comfort and safety!? And how do we ever know our client's attitude about cost if we don't give 'em options? // Price objections go right out the door when my team offers options - inexpensive to over-the-top - and I'm consistently amazed at how many folks we "think" are price conscious choose the middle or over-the-top option. // Add financing to our offers and ... oops, never mind. I got on one of my rants, but I consistently let my guys know we cannot project our own b.s. money brain-washing on our clients. Let them CHOOSE how to spend their money! // Apologies again for the rant. Your membrane idea is a spot-on right-on. -- 'Ol Ed

 

[Twowaxhack]

Since most bathrooms have tile floors, it’s not that much of a stretch to waterproof underneath it. And not that expensive relative to total build cost these days. The builders are so flipping cheap. It is ungodly.

One thing I’m running into now is these clueless idiots who called themselves builders using MDF trim in the bathroom! What moron would ever think this is a good idea? They should have their license taken away. As soon as water hits that it turns into a sponge and is destroyed. I have already replaced a lot of that as a handyman. Boggles the mind.

Builders will build whatever the customer wants to pay for. If the builder won’t build it, find another builder.

It’s either built to the current code or not. If it’s not built to current code then it should fail.

Is it the cheap builders ?

Is it weak building code ?

Poor quality inspectors ?

Cheap homeowners who think they understand what sells houses and what doesn’t that won’t pay for quality construction ?

Maybe all four ?

Find you a good builder and pay for what you want.

 

[cgilley]

Since most bathrooms have tile floors, it’s not that much of a stretch to waterproof underneath it. And not that expensive relative to total build cost these days. The builders are so flipping cheap. It is ungodly.

One thing I’m running into now is these clueless idiots who called themselves builders using MDF trim in the bathroom! What moron would ever think this is a good idea? They should have their license taken away. As soon as water hits that it turns into a sponge and is destroyed. I have already replaced a lot of that as a handyman. Boggles the mind.

license? seriously? lol.

 

[cgilley]

Builders will build whatever the customer wants to pay for.

It’s either built to the current code or not.

I disagree. Most builders are idiots and want to stay in their comfort zone. You and I have seen enough nonsense.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I disagree. Most builders are idiots and want to stay in their comfort zone. You and I have seen enough nonsense.

I disagree with you, most homeowners are idiots. They also don’t know what they want, change what they want all the time and refuse to pay for what they want.

And I have almost 40 years in the trade dealing with these idiot homeowners who’d rather buy a new IPhone and $160 air Jordan’s than pay for their plumbing repair.

The number one thing I hear from homeowners : That’s too expensive for me, do you have anything cheaper ?

Homeowners like that are the same ones who eat at McDonald’s then complain the food tastes like **** and when they happen to go to a fine dinning restaurant they can’t enjoy the food because it costs too much . Facts

If the builder won’t build what you want then find another builder……and get your checkbook out.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Certainly for new construction, it’s not quite as simple as that. The vast majority of housing is not custom. so the customer has little to no option on how anything is done, save for the color of the flooring or perhaps the kind of carpet.

Try telling a builder of a townhome or condo, which is the vast majority of housing stock being built in the Charlotte area, that you want a waterproof floor in the bathroom. If it’s not something they have done and have familiarity with the answer will be no… or they will price it so astronomically high you have no choice but to say no. The other group of housing stock being built are in larger subdivisions by national home builders such as Lennar… it’s the same thing with the single-family homes like that as it is with townhomes and condos. They do what they want do and they’re not accommodating to whatever special you want.

Yes, the building codes are off. It’s not the building inspectors because they generally inspect to code. Yes there are good inspectors and bad inspectors. Whenever there is any plan to tighten up or revise building codes the builders lobby screams bloody murder.

A great example around here is vinyl siding. It should be banned in this climate particularly when they loosen up the zoning codes such that you have higher and higher density… combine that with the requirement for low-E window glass, and you have a mess on your hand. I do a lot of handyman work in a 55+ senior community here of single-family family homes packed tight together… and many of them have melted vinyl siding! a simple reflection off low E glass from your neighbors house 10 feet away from your vinyl siding, and your siding will melt. Nobody thinks of these things, and then the homeowner left with a costly mess.

Clearly, the code makers haven’t spent much time in the field!

 

[havasu]

Clearly, the code makers haven’t spent much time in the field!

Boy, that's a fact!

 

[Twowaxhack]

Certainly for new construction, it’s not quite as simple as that. The vast majority of housing is not custom. so the customer has little to no option on how anything is done, save for the color of the flooring or perhaps the kind of carpet.

Try telling a builder of a townhome or condo, which is the vast majority of housing stock being built in the Charlotte area, that you want a waterproof floor in the bathroom. If it’s not something they have done and have familiarity with the answer will be no… or they will price it so astronomically high you have no choice but to say no. The other group of housing stock being built are in larger subdivisions by national home builders such as Lennar… it’s the same thing with the single-family homes like that as it is with townhomes and condos. They do what they want do and they’re not accommodating to whatever special you want.

Yes, the building codes are off. It’s not the building inspectors because they generally inspect to code. Yes there are good inspectors and bad inspectors. Whenever there is any plan to tighten up or revise building codes the builders lobby screams bloody murder.

A great example around here is vinyl siding. It should be banned in this climate particularly when they loosen up the zoning codes such that you have higher and higher density… combine that with the requirement for low-E window glass, and you have a mess on your hand. I do a lot of handyman work in a 55+ senior community here of single-family family homes packed tight together… and many of them have melted vinyl siding! a simple reflection off low E glass from your neighbors house 10 feet away from your vinyl siding, and your siding will melt. Nobody thinks of these things, and then the homeowner left with a costly mess.

Clearly, the code makers haven’t spent much time in the field!

Too bad, if you want a custom home then have a custom home built.

Become a builder and change things, it should be so simple for you because you have all the answers. What you waiting for ?

You could be the best builder in the country and make millions……

You won’t have any trouble selling your “ better built “ homes to cheap ass homeowners.

 

[cgilley]

Jeeze twowax, spicy much? But you are spot on.

Back in 2000, I had a housing problem - too many children (and I have a lot) and not enough bedrooms. I would have preferred to buy a place with some land and lets finish the basement. There was a subdivision down the road that was perfect. Not a single builder in the area would go above 4 bedrooms. Going above that meant scaling up the HVAC, septic, etc. They just would not entertain a discussion.

But, back to the original question - I just think if you have a bare bathroom area - think no tub, cabinets, etc just studs and the plumbing - you could spray or roll a rubber compound down - easy peasy. It was just a thought.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Yes a little spicy but everyone knows that most people want cheap. Builders are giving people what sell…..

If the builders are not building to code or misrepresenting then that’s another story.

I talk to most customers more about price than anything else. They’re not concerned with much anything else.

I have a few customers that are the opposite, they want the best. I give them the best.

 

[psomerville]

In all of my years owning and working on homes, it seems to me that it would be relatively trivial to prevent water from leaving a bathroom. Thoughts?

Doesn't Schluter Systems specialize in products that waterproof your shower and floors?

 

[havasu]

Sure does, but you need a sloped mud base before applying. Ka-Ching

 

[cgilley]

Yes a little spicy but everyone knows that most people want cheap. Builders are giving people what sell…..

If the builders are not building to code or misrepresenting then that’s another story.

I talk to most customers more about price than anything else. They’re not concerned with much anything else.

I have a few customers that are the opposite, they want the best. I give them the best.

Just to be clear, I appreciate your unfiltered opinions.

True story time. Plumbing is involved, bear with me.

1. So in 2000, I need more room in the house. I added 2 bedrooms with jack and Jill bathrooms, extended the kitchen, added a school room (we homeschooled our children). I'm an electrical engineer, working his a$$ off to pay for this, I don't do construction. Since we're sort of on the topic of "inspections."
   
   The footers are dug, the rebar is in... time for inspection. And we wait, and wait... and it starts raining 4 days straight... inspector shows up on day 4, fails the inspection because of "water in the footings." What a waste of oxygen. The GM and I had a good laugh, what are you going to do?
   
   
2. Rough framing is up, need an inspection - inspector hears dog barking, refuses to inspect, signs off without looking at anything. Hmmm.
3. 4 months later, it's time for plumbing inspection. Fails because the new washer connection is 3 inches too low. Talk about all of the stupid **** inspectors do. This is when I learned that if the sub isn't from the county area, he is screwed.
4. Final inspection - failed because I have a garage door with glass in it (inspectors have been walking in and out of my addition for 7 months now).
   
   If you are an inspector, sorry, you are useless ****s.

I get the price thing. I work by contract as well. But I would urge all homeowners to develop relationships with trades people. Send them cards and happy nothing gifts. You people get crapped on so often...