OK it has been about 2 years now that we have been on well water. The gauge on the tank reads 40 lbs and the guy who installed it wrote in marker on the tank 38 lbs empty. My question is what is a normal pressure for well water and could I increase it to 50 or 60 lbs. Only because we are used to city water which seems to have more pressure.
Water Pressure
- Thread starter mrelmo
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sarg
Well-Known Member
I suspect the notation on the pressure tank is telling you that the "air" pressure is set at 38 which is 2 psi less than the start setting on the pressure switch ( which is correct)
You can modify the pressure switch settings but remember to modify the pressure tank setting (psi) to suit i.e. 2 psi less than the start. There are many YouTube videos on the modification and how to check the tank pressure ( with the water psi at zero.)
Just info -- My well is set with a 30/50 switch .... but they can be modified to whatever you want.
I suggest you research on how a well system works ... dozens of clips on the net. ( You state your gauge reads 40 psi but that is in a static state meaning depending on how your switch is set up .... if you have a 30/50 switch setting ... the pump comes on at 30 and then off at 50 ...... uses the few gallons of water in your tank .... the pressure drops to 30 and the cycle starts all over again.)
You can modify the pressure switch settings but remember to modify the pressure tank setting (psi) to suit i.e. 2 psi less than the start. There are many YouTube videos on the modification and how to check the tank pressure ( with the water psi at zero.)
Just info -- My well is set with a 30/50 switch .... but they can be modified to whatever you want.
I suggest you research on how a well system works ... dozens of clips on the net. ( You state your gauge reads 40 psi but that is in a static state meaning depending on how your switch is set up .... if you have a 30/50 switch setting ... the pump comes on at 30 and then off at 50 ...... uses the few gallons of water in your tank .... the pressure drops to 30 and the cycle starts all over again.)
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It is your well and pump. You can have as much pressure as you want. You just have to make it happen. The pressure sitting at 40 is not normal unless you have some kind of variable speed type pump. With 38 PSI air in the tank there should be a pressure switch turning the pump on at 40 and off at 60 PSI. If that is the case and you still do not have good strong pressure, you can turn up the pressure switch to 50/70 or even 60/80. But no matter how high you turn it up the pump cycling between those numbers will still seem like low pressure. Adding a Cycle Stop Valve will deliver strong constant pressure in the middle of your pressure switch on/off setting. I have a 50/70 pressure switch and my CSV holds a strong constant 60 PSI to my house. My shower pressure is so strong I don't even need soap. Lol! My friends who live in the city always comment on how much stronger the water pressure is than their city pressure.
Thanks for the replies, the tank is in the crawl space so it is a little bit of an inconvenience but just something I have to deal with. I have read about a CSV very interesting, but seems to be very controversial. I am going to do more researching on a CSV. Before I search the net from what you guys tell me, with my switch set 30-50 would my constant pressure while a valve is open be 40 or something else, example while the shower is running.
sarg
Well-Known Member
As your system currently sits ...... the pressure continually varies from 30 to 50 as I explained how the system cycle works in my earlier post.
The csv would allow you to "set" the pressure wanted.... usually at a mid point such as 40-45 psi with a 30/50 switch.
And just to mention .... I did follow the guidance of Valveman over a year ago and installed a CSV when I reworked my entire water system. My pressure stays at about 40 to 44 psi during showers. I have no regrets.
The csv would allow you to "set" the pressure wanted.... usually at a mid point such as 40-45 psi with a 30/50 switch.
And just to mention .... I did follow the guidance of Valveman over a year ago and installed a CSV when I reworked my entire water system. My pressure stays at about 40 to 44 psi during showers. I have no regrets.
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sarg
Well-Known Member
Yes .... that's the CSV1A. ( I have sent you a private message )
https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/csv1a
https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/csv1a
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Yeah there is a lot of controversy from those who have never seen a CSV yet think they know how it works. There are a few really bad people on the Internet trying to keep others from using the best thing they could do for their water system, which is the CSV. Money back guarantee on the CSV for the last 30 years and no one has even sent one back for a refund. I wish Youtube would adhere to there community guidelines about no misinformation, bullying, and harassment. But they get 6 times more clicks for fake news than real news, so they are not going to remove false information about a well established and patented product. They only do that for people they target politically.
Here is a link to several hundred reviews from people who actually know what they are talking about like Sarg. Reviews – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc
sarg
Well-Known Member
Just to mention .... My motivation for installing two CSVs was more about reducing the "cycles" within the systems. Electrical components have a specific "lifespan" & I had installed a new submersible at my residence that I wanted to outlast me.
On my utility well I put in a Cv125-1 because I use that well to fill a 50 gallon water tank the wife uses for her garden. Watching the system constantly cycling while filling this tank brought home the fact that the 40 plus year old pump in that well would be worn out much sooner. I used a 40/60 switch on that system .... and the pump stays at about 50 psi for the duration of the fill.
For me the consistent pressure is an added benefit.
On my utility well I put in a Cv125-1 because I use that well to fill a 50 gallon water tank the wife uses for her garden. Watching the system constantly cycling while filling this tank brought home the fact that the 40 plus year old pump in that well would be worn out much sooner. I used a 40/60 switch on that system .... and the pump stays at about 50 psi for the duration of the fill.
For me the consistent pressure is an added benefit.
I second the endorsement for the CSV. I've had mine for 3+ years and could not be happier. My well is 800' deep. I burned up my original well pump after only 3 years. I knew nothing about well pumps. I had a new well pump installed and they used too large of a pump and it burned up from cycling after only 2 WEEKS. They replaced it with a smaller hp pump and I was concerned about the possibility of that one burning up ( I have a 44-gallon pressure tank). I started reading up on how well systems work and stumbled upon posts by Valveman. He gave me an education and helped me determine the proper size pump I needed and determined that I could indeed use a CSV. What was in question was whether the back pressure on my particular system because of the static water level in my well and the depth of the pump would be excessive for the psi rating of the well pipe in my well. The back pressure created by the CSV because of my well's characteristics is 150 psi, but fortunately, I have 250 psi rated pipe and I could use the CSV. I have the Cycle Sensor device too, and that will shut off the pump if my well were to ever run dry. One other feature I like about the Cycle Sensor is its digital readout that shows the amperage draw while the pump is running. I keep an eye on that reading and at the point that the running amperage draw starts to be higher on a regular basis, I'll know that the pump motor is wearing or under higher load from a failing pump, and I need to consider a pump replacement in the not-too-distant future.
Before I do anything with a CSV I need to understand the pressure switch first. As stated in the beginning my tank is marked 38 lbs empty tank, I have not pulled the switch cover yet just assume the switch is 40-60. Here is where I am confused when I leave my cottage, I turn the pump off (just in case there is a leak and it's not running when no one is there). When I come back the gauge reads 40. I assume when a faucet is turned on and it draws down to 38 it will kick on until it hits 60, at this point if the water is still running what should the gauge read or is that irrelevant. With the pump running while say taking a shower what should the gauge read. Next week I will go and pull the cover on the switch and see what the numbers are.
sarg
Well-Known Member
1- Your answer is within the earlier posts. Read them.
2- Be aware the switches are the same ... just set ( and labeled ) differently at the factory
2- Be aware the switches are the same ... just set ( and labeled ) differently at the factory
sarg
Well-Known Member
Yes.... The system will cycle ... When someone takes a shower go and watch the water pressure gauge .
Using water .. the pressure tank is emptied first ( a 20 gal. tank holds about 5 gallons below the bladder ) ... the pump turns on when system drops to start pressure of 40 .. the pump supplies the tank and whatever outlet is used until the system hits the off pressure of 60 .. and then the cycle starts over again.
If you stop using water mid-cycle of the pressure tank being emptied the system will "sit" at whatever the pressure was at ... assuming no leaks & the check valve at the pump is holding.
There are dozens of videos on the net of how a well system works.
Using water .. the pressure tank is emptied first ( a 20 gal. tank holds about 5 gallons below the bladder ) ... the pump turns on when system drops to start pressure of 40 .. the pump supplies the tank and whatever outlet is used until the system hits the off pressure of 60 .. and then the cycle starts over again.
If you stop using water mid-cycle of the pressure tank being emptied the system will "sit" at whatever the pressure was at ... assuming no leaks & the check valve at the pump is holding.
There are dozens of videos on the net of how a well system works.
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sarg
Well-Known Member
You're very welcome.
It took me quite awhile to grasp how it all works and I still find "issues" I trip across confusing.
That's what makes members like "Valveman" such an asset.
It took me quite awhile to grasp how it all works and I still find "issues" I trip across confusing.
That's what makes members like "Valveman" such an asset.
A little more background on my experience with the CSV. The primary reason I got my CSV was to stop the pump cycling to preserve my pump. I do not have a sprinkler system for my yard, but I do water many little trees and bushes during the summer and this process can take 1.5 - 2 hours, where the pump is cycling on and off continuously during that time period. I have a 44-gallon pressure tank, but it does not hold 44 gallons of water. It only holds around 12 gallons of water. This is the case with all different sizes of pressure tanks. They only hold around 25% of the stated size of the tank. So when watering my yard, once I've consumed 12 gallons of water, the pump turns on and fills the tanks with 12 gallons.....shuts off.....tank depletes.....tank refilled with 12 gallons, etc. etc. So, my pump would be turning on every 2 minutes or so, for 90-120 minutes. It was during one of these watering episodes that my original pump failed and also during one of these episodes when my first replacement pump failed. With the CSV, when you open one or more faucets that result in overall consumption of more than 1 gallon/minute, whatever volume of water that remains in your pressure tank is consumed first. Then the CSV opens and remains open as long as the pump is running and the consumption rate is greater than 1 gallon/minute. When you turn off the faucet, the CSV closes and your pressure tank refills.
I have a 60/40 pressure switch on my pressure tank. So, when I take a shower, if my pressure tank has......say.....5 gallons remaining in it. my shower head will be flowing at 40-45 psi.....the lower end of the pressure range of my pressure switch. Once the pressure tank is exhausted of the 5 gallons of water, the CSV opens (the CSV is set at 55 psi) and the pump turns on and starts pumping at 55 psi. Note: the pump is pumping at a much higher pressure than 55 psi, but the CSV restricts the pressure to not exceed 55 psi. So back to the shower.....the pressure tank depletes, the pump comes on, and the flow rate coming out of the shower head increases to 55 psi and you can feel the increase in flow. And that 55 psi flow rate continues the entire time I am taking a shower until I turn the shower valve off. At that point, the CSV closes, the pressure tank refills, and the pump shuts off. So the pump has not cycled on and off during this entire process, and therefore, the pump does not overheat.
You can use a CSV with a very small pressure tank, and that feature is highlighted on the CSV site. This would mean that you would have a very, very short period when the small pressure tank is feeding the water supply at the lower end of the pressure switch pressure, and basically, almost the entire time that you turn on the faucet, you would have 55 psi because the CSV would open almost immediately. I personally would be concerned about the pump cycling on and off more often because of that very small pressure tank capacity. So, for example, if you turned on the water at your kitchen sink to wash dishes, you might trigger the pump to turn on. I like the idea of having up to 12 gallons in my 44-gallon pressure tank to feed my water needs for small, incidental uses of water and not trigger the pump to come on. Note: a small use of water like washing dishes or flushing a toilet could still trigger the pump to come on if the pressure tank happens to be close to empty. When I'm in the shower, even If I have all 12 gallons in the 44-gallon pressure tank, that water is consumed quickly while I'm waiting for the water to warm up, and then, maybe the first couple of minutes while I'm in the shower. After those first couple of minutes, the full 55 psi pressure comes on and continues until I'm done in the shower. So, if I were to do it again, I would still use my 44-gallon pressure tank with the CSV. I am very happy with my CSV. It's been 3 years that I have had and it's worked flawlessly for my irrigation needs too.
I have a 60/40 pressure switch on my pressure tank. So, when I take a shower, if my pressure tank has......say.....5 gallons remaining in it. my shower head will be flowing at 40-45 psi.....the lower end of the pressure range of my pressure switch. Once the pressure tank is exhausted of the 5 gallons of water, the CSV opens (the CSV is set at 55 psi) and the pump turns on and starts pumping at 55 psi. Note: the pump is pumping at a much higher pressure than 55 psi, but the CSV restricts the pressure to not exceed 55 psi. So back to the shower.....the pressure tank depletes, the pump comes on, and the flow rate coming out of the shower head increases to 55 psi and you can feel the increase in flow. And that 55 psi flow rate continues the entire time I am taking a shower until I turn the shower valve off. At that point, the CSV closes, the pressure tank refills, and the pump shuts off. So the pump has not cycled on and off during this entire process, and therefore, the pump does not overheat.
You can use a CSV with a very small pressure tank, and that feature is highlighted on the CSV site. This would mean that you would have a very, very short period when the small pressure tank is feeding the water supply at the lower end of the pressure switch pressure, and basically, almost the entire time that you turn on the faucet, you would have 55 psi because the CSV would open almost immediately. I personally would be concerned about the pump cycling on and off more often because of that very small pressure tank capacity. So, for example, if you turned on the water at your kitchen sink to wash dishes, you might trigger the pump to turn on. I like the idea of having up to 12 gallons in my 44-gallon pressure tank to feed my water needs for small, incidental uses of water and not trigger the pump to come on. Note: a small use of water like washing dishes or flushing a toilet could still trigger the pump to come on if the pressure tank happens to be close to empty. When I'm in the shower, even If I have all 12 gallons in the 44-gallon pressure tank, that water is consumed quickly while I'm waiting for the water to warm up, and then, maybe the first couple of minutes while I'm in the shower. After those first couple of minutes, the full 55 psi pressure comes on and continues until I'm done in the shower. So, if I were to do it again, I would still use my 44-gallon pressure tank with the CSV. I am very happy with my CSV. It's been 3 years that I have had and it's worked flawlessly for my irrigation needs too.
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Thanks JEG and Sarg! While the CSV will work with any size tank, a large tank is not as helpful as you might think. While a small tank may cause the pump to come on when a toilet is flushed or a dish is washed, the CSV will not let the pump go off until you are completely finished using water. So, after the toilet flushes, you wash your hands, and the washing machine is full, the CSV will finally fill the small tank and turn the pump off. The CSV causes the small tank to take another minute or so to fill after the last faucet is closed, making sure you are finished using water before the pump goes off. If you use any water before the tank is full, the pump just continues to run and does not shut off. It is much more important that the pump not shut off until you are finished using water, than the fact that the pump comes on as soon as you start using water.
Although the pump will come on when a toilet is flushed, a single toilet flush is rare. Usually there are other water uses before, after, or during a toilet flush, and the CSV just keeps the pump running until they are all turned off. If you stand there and flush a toilet a thousand times in a row, the CSV just keep the pump running and there is only one pump cycle. If you get up in the middle of the night and flush the toilet once, the pump will come on. But that cycle is way more than offset by the hundreds of other cycles the CSV prevents during normal daily use. While a larger tank with a CSV doesn't really hurt anything. A large tank is a waste of money/space and causes you to wait a few minutes before the shower pressure becomes strong and constant coming from the CSV.
Although the pump will come on when a toilet is flushed, a single toilet flush is rare. Usually there are other water uses before, after, or during a toilet flush, and the CSV just keeps the pump running until they are all turned off. If you stand there and flush a toilet a thousand times in a row, the CSV just keep the pump running and there is only one pump cycle. If you get up in the middle of the night and flush the toilet once, the pump will come on. But that cycle is way more than offset by the hundreds of other cycles the CSV prevents during normal daily use. While a larger tank with a CSV doesn't really hurt anything. A large tank is a waste of money/space and causes you to wait a few minutes before the shower pressure becomes strong and constant coming from the CSV.
potersdelgadillo
New Member
The normal pressure for well water can vary quite a bit depending on the particular well and the amount of water it is supplying. Generally speaking, a pressure between 30 and 60 psi is considered normal. Increasing the pressure to 50 or 60 psi should be fine, although it is recommended that you have a professional check your system to make sure it can handle the extra pressure.
