Water coming out of conduit around water main in basement

[karenmarie031]

I have conduit around the water main that comes into my basement. The conduit extends about 2’ off of the laundry room floor. Recently the conduit has been filling with water and overflowing, causing water to drip down the outside of the conduit and going on my laundry room floor.

This previously happened in October after some massive rain storms and lasted for about 3 weeks. It started again a few weeks ago after we had several strong rain storms in one week. So the conduit wasn’t overflowing for months after the first instance of the problem.

My property slopes down from the road, and my house is approximately 60 feet from the road.

We have also had crazy temperature swings during the last few weeks (below freezing some days at night and really warm during the days).

Also, a humidity gauge says I often have 60 percent humidity in my basement. An old dehumidifier can bring that down by 10-15 percent after running for several hours. I don’t know if the dehumidifier is working as efficiently as it did when new.

A plumber that I contacted wanted to rip out the existing water line, jackhammer concrete in my basement, etc. It was going to be a substantial amount of money.

Other information:

I have taken a photo of my water meter and then took another photo several hours later. There isn’t any change in any of the reading or dials.

We haven’t had any problems with discolored water or low water pressure from our faucets. However, the pressure regulator is before the water meter, so the house water pressure might remain constant regardless of the cause of the water coming into my laundry room.

Although it hasn’t rained in days, the soil is still visibly wet in areas where storm water drained on the property. The storm water drains in my back yard, but soil in my front yard could still be wet from all of the storm runoff, although it doesn’t appear to be wet on the surface. I think it rained about 1-1/2 inches over two days. When you think about how much runoff that caused between the 60 feet downhill from the road to my house, the soil near my foundation could still be wet, although the surface soil doesn’t look wet. The soil is clay, so it doesn’t drain quickly.

We did put in French drains more than 10 years ago, but I have no idea if they are still working.

Do you have any ideas of how I can resolve this without paying thousands of dollars? Should I buy a better dehumidifier, use duct seal around the pipe in my laundry room, wait to see if it stops by itself, or try something else? As a temporary solution, I bought a siphon and connected several feet of extra tubing to one end of it. I inserted that in the conduit, started the siphoning process, and a steady stream of water is going into my laundry room drain. This happens 24/7. (That solution is working. It has been a continuous science experiment to find something to divert the water dripping down the conduit, since my laundry room floor is not sloped properly and the water doesn’t naturally go into the laundry room drain. It goes under a wall instead, which is why it had to be diverted.)

The siphon could divert the water inside my house indefinitely, but I don’t want to ignore it if there is a bigger problem that could cause foundation damage. The fact that a steady stream of water is being siphoned out of the conduit scares me.

The plumber I talked to said it could be a water main break which is why he recommend ripping everything out and starting over.

I assume if there was a water main break, the ground would be mushy in my yard somewhere, but it isn’t. Perhaps there could be a water main leak, but the conduit is collecting all of the water, which is causing the end of the conduit to overflow (when a siphon is not used).

What do you think? Is it likely a water main break, condensation, or groundwater?

If you think this is caused by the recent rainstorms, how do I prevent it from happening again? I can use duct seal (or whatever you recommend in my basement), but I don’t know where the other side of the conduit ends in my yard, so I don’t know how to address where water could be entering the conduit pipe.

I greatly appreciate you reading this and offering any advice that you think might resolve this issue.

Edited to fix typo.

 

[havasu]

Just remember, ALWAYS get at least 3 quotes.

 

[frontporch]

I ran conduit to my pool and was surprised that even though the wire was encased in the plastic conduit that I intended to use solvent to join the code required water resistant wire THHN. The assumption is that underground plastic conduits can fill with ground water. Mine leaves the basement above ground so no issues of water returning

I would think a leaky water main would result in the problem persisting throughout the year not just during rain.

As far as the time it takes for groundwater to make it travel through the ground it probably varies by a lot of factors. By me it seems to take a day for rain to effect my sump pump

I would look for ways to try and eliminate the need for major construction. Besides the cost I would hate to see you have more problems

Is your water supply well or do you have “city” water? Maybe there is a way to pressure test the line from the street

Can you share a picture of the conduit?

 

[frontporch]

Also. In my basement when the sump pump has failed I have had a couple inches of water. That’s all groundwater and the water table here can get high

Do you have a sump pump and is it actively pumping? If I had conduit coming through my basement floor and it went up six inches from the floor it would not leak/overflow although it may fill with water

Water seeks its own level and in the worst case my groundwater has only been a few inches above the floor.

 

[frontporch]

Without knowing more I guess there is a chance that the conduit is taking on water at a higher point than where it ends in your basement.

Here is an example. Let’s say that conduit is your service entrance and the conduit runs underground to the street which is several feet higher than your first floor and continues up a utility pole. If ground water collects around that pole and the conduit is not water tight it may be acting as a drain diverting surface water into your basement

 

[RS]

I would just deal with it and when your yard dries up and the water level goes down in the conduit I would fill the end of it with expanding foam sealer. If you want to plug it right now suck the water out with a shop-vac and pack some rags down in the conduit, then put some hydraulic cement in it.

 

[karenmarie031]

I ran conduit to my pool and was surprised that even though the wire was encased in the plastic conduit that I intended to use solvent to join the code required water resistant wire THHN. The assumption is that underground plastic conduits can fill with ground water. Mine leaves the basement above ground so no issues of water returning

I would think a leaky water main would result in the problem persisting throughout the year not just during rain.

As far as the time it takes for groundwater to make it travel through the ground it probably varies by a lot of factors. By me it seems to take a day for rain to effect my sump pump

I would look for ways to try and eliminate the need for major construction. Besides the cost I would hate to see you have more problems

Is your water supply well or do you have “city” water? Maybe there is a way to pressure test the line from the street

Can you share a picture of the conduit?

Here is a picture of the conduit. The paper towel stopped the conduit from overflowing on the floor. The paper towel wicked the water and drained it into a funnel, which I extended the tubing so that it drained into my floor drain. That was an earlier science experiment. It was not a long-term solution because the paper towel would need to be replaced often due to risk of failure.

 

[karenmarie031]

Here is a picture of the conduit. The paper towel stopped the conduit from overflowing on the floor. The paper towel wicked the water and drained it into a funnel, which I extended the tubing so that it drained into my floor drain. That was an earlier science experiment. It was not a long-term solution because the paper towel would need to be replaced often due to risk of failure.

Also, should I be concerned that I can hear the water going into the floor drain? I can hear the trickle of water.

 

[frontporch]

I was thinking this was an electrical conduit in the area of the water main so most of what I said can be ignored. This is clearly a conduit that has the water main running inside of it

Lots of good plumbers on this site and hopefully you will get some good suggestions

 

[karenmarie031]

Here is an image that shows the ground saturation in my backyard. I assume that the ground in my front yard would also be saturated from the 60 feet of rain runoff, even though the ground looks dry on the surface.

 

[CT18]

Do you have a sump pump in your house or perimeter drains that run to a storm sewer. That is a sleeve for the main water coming up through the slab. If it were me I would take it as you have water under the basement floor and rising up around the walls, water table. This time of year it is high with thawing and rain. I would assume the water is rising up through the sleeve like a straw. I would not say it is a leak underground unless it happens year round, but you could get a leak detection company to come out.

 

[wpns]

I would start digging up at the street where the water main goes into that “conduit” (actually, sleeve), and find where the water is getting into that sleeve and seal it off there.

 

[MicEd69]

From your description, CT18 has it right. You said, "I don’t know where the other side of the conduit ends in my yard". That sleeve doesn't end in your yard, it simply goes through your basement floor to isolate your water line from the concrete floor. I would recommend packing the annular space between the sleeve and the water line with some foam material to within 1/4" of the top of the sleeve. It doesn't have to be tight, just something to hold the silicon caulk that you should use from flowing down the sleeve.

You could use expanding foam or hydraulic cement to fill the entire annular space, but if/when the water starts to seep through, it would be a real pain to try to fix at that point. And you don't want to fill the entire annular space with silicon caulk either, as a thin layer will better react to any movement between the sleeve and the water line, hence the reason for the sleeve in the first place.

 

[karenmarie031]

Do you have a sump pump in your house or perimeter drains that run to a storm sewer. That is a sleeve for the main water coming up through the slab. If it were me I would take it as you have water under the basement floor and rising up around the walls, water table. This time of year it is high with thawing and rain. I would assume the water is rising up through the sleeve like a straw. I would not say it is a leak underground unless it happens year round, but you could get a leak detection company to come out.

I do not have a sump pump in my house. As far as I know, the only outside drain that I have is the French drain that I installed many years ago, which may or may not still be functional. I do know that when we have a huge amount of rain in a short period of time, which only happens rarely, I can see puddles of water on top of where the French drain should be. I don’t remember how long it takes for those puddles to disappear, since, as I previously mentioned, it only happens after huge rainstorms.

There are also floor drains in my laundry room and garage that were installed when the house was built.

If the water is rising up along the walls as you suggest, don’t I need to install more drainage to fix that?

*** Edited to clarify that I was talking about outside drains and to mention that I also had two inside floor drains. ***

 

[frontporch]

In my opinion if your basement floor is dry and you don’t have leaks in the walls then you probably don’t have any problems to fix

I assume your French drain is a subsurface drain outside your home that empties to daylight( the picture of the ripple pipe you posted?). In NJ my French drain is under the basement slab and empties into a sump pit

 

[karenmarie031]

In my opinion if your basement floor is dry and you don’t have leaks in the walls then you probably don’t have any problems to fix

I assume your French drain is a subsurface drain outside your home that empties to daylight( the picture of the ripple pipe you posted?). In NJ my French drain is under the basement slab and empties into a sump pit

I installed a French drain around the front and sides of my house. Based upon photos, it is only a few feet under ground level. I also connected the downspouts to the drain. The drain pipe then goes down hill along the sides of my house, under my backyard, and down a hill. It drains into a ditch on my property. The large pipe pictured was installed separately to divert rainwater from the main road. I was not allowed to connect my small drains to that pipe, because the water from that big pipe drains on the property belonging to the neighbor who lives behind my property. The township told me that I could install the big pipe to move the rainwater from the road farther down my property, since it was causing problems in my yard, but I was not allowed to change the path that the water would have taken naturally. I believe they called it a swell.

 

[MicEd69]

When it rains, the water table rises. Your drainage pipes are only taking your downspout water and surface water that is draining down through the soil to a lower ditch based on your description that "it is only a few feet under ground level." So, when you get a heavy rain and the water table rises to an elevation above the top of the water pipe sleeve, water will come up through sleeve into your basement. You apparently have a well-constructed basement as the water is not coming in through the floor/wall joint.

If you had a sump pump to remove water from under your basement floor and from around your foundation, you would not have water coming in through that pipe sleeve. That is another solution to this issue, but extremely more expensive and something that would not be a reasonable solution unless you start have basement water intrusion from cracks or seams in the basement concrete.

 

[karenmarie031]

When it rains, the water table rises. Your drainage pipes are only taking your downspout water and surface water that is draining down through the soil to a lower ditch based on your description that "it is only a few feet under ground level." So, when you get a heavy rain and the water table rises to an elevation above the top of the water pipe sleeve, water will come up through sleeve into your basement. You apparently have a well-constructed basement as the water is not coming in through the floor/wall joint.

If you had a sump pump to remove water from under your basement floor and from around your foundation, you would not have water coming in through that pipe sleeve. That is another solution to this issue, but extremely more expensive and something that would not be a reasonable solution unless you start have basement water intrusion from cracks or seams in the basement concrete.

Here are some photos that were taken during house construction. Is that gravel the perimeter drain? I am not sure why it looks like they split the area into four squares. The photos were taken 25 years ago, so I don’t remember whether they were taken from the front, side, or back of the house.

 

[MicEd69]

Here are some photos that were taken during house construction. Is that gravel the perimeter drain? I am not sure why it looks like they split the area into four squares. The photos were taken 25 years ago, so I don’t remember whether they were taken from the front, side, or back of the house.

Oops, I was mistaken that the sleeve was just a sleeve in the basement floor. In any case, I would still do the solution I suggested, except you don't have to worry about keeping the silicon caulk layer thin. The copper pipe will have enough play inside the sleeve that anchoring it at one end won't hurt.

 

[wpns]

Also, should I be concerned that I can hear the water going into the floor drain? I can hear the trickle of water.

If there’s water coming in from the sleeve in the floor and going out a floor drain then the water table’s not above the basement floor. I still think the water’s getting into the sleeve at a higher elevation.

Does the floor drain go to your french drain system or your septic system?