Hear my sad story - question as to tracking an overflow line and leak detection

[cgilley]

So I am clearly getting older and just not giving a $hit anymore. Two days ago I was working with my noise cancelling headphones on because, well because, and my wife taps me on the shoulder and says "we have a big water leak, and I need the shop vac." Water leak tends to get my adrenaline surging (it's a history thing, I have meds now) so I zoom out to the garage, and I swear as I type this, I have a cloud burst coming through the garage ceiling. Clearly the leak is on the second floor, but there is so much water coming out of the ceiling I just started laughing hysterically. Note: for some reason, these disasters only happen on important days: the week before Thanksgiving, mother in law breaking her hip on my anniversary, etc. Turns out, insane washing machine - possibly with a bad sensor (I'm learning Whirlpool has started making crap) but daughter set it on soak cycle overnight. The next morning, she just turned it on and went back into her room whereupon the washing machine, completely full, resumed filling. And filling, and filling.

I'm still laughing. While all of the fans and dehumidifiers are running, while I continue to coddle my father in law... I might be starting to understand why my mother in law was so dang angry over the past 4 decades. Anyway... to the facts.

The original house's laundry was upstairs. When we moved in, there is an overflow pipe that was never used by the previous homeowner (the builder). It drops into the floor and goes who the heck knows where. Had I had the washer in a pan and connected to this pipe, disaster may have been averted, but oh well. To be honest, in 50 years, I've never had a washing machine do this.

Anyway, I'm going to get MFP (my favorite plumber) out to trace the line, but how would one do that? I have an opportunity at the moment as I have direct access to the subfloor, but I'm pretty sure i'd have to open up a ceiling to make sure...

Second question - leak detection. I know I can drop a battery powered audible alarm in each of these pans, but it is stunning to me that these systems are not installed in new construction AND not subsidized by insurance. What I'm thinking of regards the obvious areas - under all water heaters, dishwasher, washing machines and tying them into a short range wireless network to immediately close off the mainline. I see what they hype via radio ads but i'm not impressed. Interested in what you pros have seen.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’ve seen a lot of flooded homes from plumbing and it happens a lot of ways.

 

[cgilley]

i think the worse thing in a home is running water . Until I need to flush.

 

[havasu]

Water leaks will certainly raise my blood pressure. In fact, my new fridge has a motor when running, sounds like water running down my wall. My adrenaline shoots through the roof, momentarily thinking that I've burst a pipe. Why does it seem that all house water systems are the first thing to break?

Is that Plumber's Union that strong?

 

[cgilley]

Ask Twowaxhack

I'm in the process of researching this. There is simply no reason why an appliance should flood a house. If you can force through electric code changes to force arc fault detectors or something, I'd think you could push leak detection into a whole house system. It would be SOOO cheap to do during construction.

 

[Rickyman]

My mother-in-law had the same thing happen with her washing machine about 5 years ago, luckily it was on the first floor and they were in the next room. It still flooded the kitchen though.
To answer your original question, that drain line probably goes to the exterior of the house above a window like a secondary a/c drain would do. You can find it by pouring water into it or using an air compressor to blow air through it and walk around the exterior of your home.

 

[cgilley]

My mother-in-law had the same thing happen with her washing machine about 5 years ago, luckily it was on the first floor and they were in the next room. It still flooded the kitchen though.
To answer your original question, that drain line probably goes to the exterior of the house above a window like a secondary a/c drain would do. You can find it by pouring water into it or using an air compressor to blow air through it and walk around the exterior of your home.

Well, I see the pipe under the garage - I think. You *might*" think it was run to the exterior, but you'd be wrong. I know the a/c in the attic runs to the condensate line - I mean the overflow - a bad thing. But there is nothing that runs to the out side that says, "hey homeowner, you have issues." I now have an opportunity to inject a little more reality to the situation.

This sort of goes to a previous post I made - why aren't bathrooms encapsulated? Considering the amount of damage water can cause - even at silly times let alone catastrophic mode - I'm stunned and thinking opportunity in this area.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Why does it seem that all house water systems are the first thing to break?

Is that Plumber's Union that strong?

Cheap homeowners want cheap plumbing prices.

Union has nothing to do with it in most places. Union advocates for better materials not worse.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Ask Twowaxhack

I'm in the process of researching this. There is simply no reason why an appliance should flood a house. If you can force through electric code changes to force arc fault detectors or something, I'd think you could push leak detection into a whole house system. It would be SOOO cheap to do during construction.

Get rid of your indoor plumbing and Just have an outhouse.

That would definitely solve the problem of flooded houses from plumbing leaks. I’m 100% sure of that and I’ll give you a life warranty.

 

[Ed O'Connell]

Exodus 21:7 says you can sell your daughter ... , but if that's not an option then the sensor that shuts off the main valve works well, and in some countries, like Kalifornikrazy, our home insurance actually can go down a bit. // As far as tracing that drain line, we had small cameras with sensors that could detect the cables in-wall ... but (ain't there always a but?) you might simply pour water down it to see if it drains or fills up. Hard to say without comin' over to yer home, but you prolly live too far away and I'm old and tired . // Last: Thanks for the laffs even with your semi-disaster ... and I'm goin' to buy a pair of them noise cancelling ear thingies to tune out my ... well, we're empty nesters so, even though I have a trophy wife and am totally bonkers over her, I'll leave the "why" up to our imaginations. // - 'Ol Ed from Kalifornikrazy where if it ain't burning it's flooding. Sheesh.

 

[cgilley]

Cheap homeowners want cheap plumbing prices.

Union has nothing to do with it in most places. Union advocates for better materials not worse.

for the record, I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm. -> the post you are commenting on.

 

[cgilley]

Get rid of your indoor plumbing and Just have an outhouse.

That would definitely solve the problem of flooded houses from plumbing leaks. I’m 100% sure of that and I’ll give you a life warranty.

Cheap homeowners want cheap plumbing prices.

Union has nothing to do with it in most places. Union advocates for better materials not worse.

ignoring the union issue, which was just a joke, i believe the problem is stupid builders (I mean that literally - they are idiots - even the main construction companies) and ignorant new homeowners. It's like if you are buying your first home, you need to take a class to qualify. If I were teaching, the first thing I would do is hit every person in the class with a 2x4. Once they woke up, I'd open with "Welcome to home ownership."

I bought the house I live in in late 1994. I had a hoard of children at the time (7) and it was just getting worse. When I was shopping, I really really wanted a basement. Apparently they were special, even if the lot required a basement, so it added on another 20k magically pushing it out of my price range. Happily, I found a house on a crawlspace with a HUGE backyard allowing my yahoos to play. The last part is not relevant, my point is that builders emphasize features that will make them the most money not what is in the interest of the buyer. And they know most buyers are ignorant.

If smoke detectors are required equipment, leak detection should be as well. Minimal extra cost and it would be a selling point. I live in the Atlanta area, and all the major plumbing firms (bought up all the family owned businesses) market this as something "special" and charge thousands. It's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, the mf'ing fans and dehydrators continue to run....

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

I used MFP and, boy oh boy, was I in “sticker shock”. Still am today.

I enjoyed reading your story. It was a real nail biter!

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

Water leaks will certainly raise my blood pressure. In fact, my new fridge has a motor when running, sounds like water running down my wall. My adrenaline shoots through the roof, momentarily thinking that I've burst a pipe. Why does it seem that all house water systems are the first thing to break?

Is that Plumber's Union that strong?

The new GE reefer makes horrible noise most of the time. I thought it was a bad fan or a bad compressor. The tech came out, plugged in his USB tester and systematically shut down each fan and the compressor and the noise was still there. The tech explained it away by saying the fill of refrigerant is so low in these new iceboxes that it makes noise while circulating throughout the system. Going green sucks!

 

[cgilley]

I used MFP and, boy oh boy, was I in “sticker shock”. Still am today.

I enjoyed reading your story. It was a real nail biter!

I'll post a couple of pictures. I think I have one of the rainstorm, and I will have several of the current dry out situation.

What's MFP?

 

[Twowaxhack]

ignoring the union issue, which was just a joke, i believe the problem is stupid builders (I mean that literally - they are idiots - even the main construction companies) and ignorant new homeowners. It's like if you are buying your first home, you need to take a class to qualify. If I were teaching, the first thing I would do is hit every person in the class with a 2x4. Once they woke up, I'd open with "Welcome to home ownership."

I bought the house I live in in late 1994. I had a hoard of children at the time (7) and it was just getting worse. When I was shopping, I really really wanted a basement. Apparently they were special, even if the lot required a basement, so it added on another 20k magically pushing it out of my price range. Happily, I found a house on a crawlspace with a HUGE backyard allowing my yahoos to play. The last part is not relevant, my point is that builders emphasize features that will make them the most money not what is in the interest of the buyer. And they know most buyers are ignorant.

If smoke detectors are required equipment, leak detection should be as well. Minimal extra cost and it would be a selling point. I live in the Atlanta area, and all the major plumbing firms (bought up all the family owned businesses) market this as something "special" and charge thousands. It's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, the mf'ing fans and dehydrators continue to run....

I don’t want the government requiring me to do anything in my own house.

Builders build cheap because that’s what sells.

I have a different perspective than you obviously.

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

I'll post a couple of pictures. I think I have one of the rainstorm, and I will have several of the current dry out situation.

What's MFP?

My Favorite Plumber. It’s the name of an actual plumbing concern here where I live.

 

[havasu]

I kinda agree with what Twowhack says. A good home builder would go out of their way to mitigate issues with potential plumbing problems, but the developer would be able to save a few pennies by ignoring these recommendations.

 

[cgilley]

I don’t want the government requiring me to do anything in my own house.

Builders build cheap because that’s what sells.

I have a different perspective than you obviously.

no, you are misinterpreting what I said and taking it out of context.

The government is already in your house via all the codes. It's gotten so bad, every time I renew my homeowner's insurance, I have to click the box that says "Do you have any uninspected changes to your house?" As if that would do any damn good. NEC requires certain circuit breakers, etc.

That said, I am still amazed at how leaks cause so much damage yet there is no movement in the construction industry to address the issue. Two, I'm commenting on your post because I believe you are a professional plumber. I happen to be an electrical engineer that solves problems - so my post is rhetorical in a sense. Do I want government involved? No. I've seen enough idiots from the government. But code is useful, even if the idiots can't read.

 

[Twowaxhack]

no, you are misinterpreting what I said and taking it out of context.

The government is already in your house via all the codes. It's gotten so bad, every time I renew my homeowner's insurance, I have to click the box that says "Do you have any uninspected changes to your house?" As if that would do any damn good. NEC requires certain circuit breakers, etc.

That said, I am still amazed at how leaks cause so much damage yet there is no movement in the construction industry to address the issue. Two, I'm commenting on your post because I believe you are a professional plumber. I happen to be an electrical engineer that solves problems - so my post is rhetorical in a sense. Do I want government involved? No. I've seen enough idiots from the government. But code is useful, even if the idiots can't read.

You want leak detection to be a requirement.

You’re advocating for more requirements. I do not want more requirements.

Let’s not confuse things.