Very bad vibration in water lines

[cadkins]

Sorry if this has been asked before. I've done some searching and can't find a situation quite like mine. I don't remember when it started but when someone is in the shower and someone else turns on the kitchen faucet both the in and out lines on the water heater shake pretty badly. It doesn't seem to do it when any other combination of faucets are on. Anyone have any idea why this is happening? The wife is getting really irritated with it. Thanks for any advice, Carl

 

[ExtraMilePlumbing]

First I would start by bleeding all the pipes ,to get all unnecessary air out the line and refill you're air chambers with air . Do this by turning off water main and starting from the top open every fixture including hose bibs , then I would turn water back on those air chambers should be full of air now. Also is there an expansion tank? Check to pressure on it it should be the same as the house. Which you do next you're pressure should be between 60-80

 

[ExtraMilePlumbing]

Upload some pictures of the rambling pipes

 

[cadkins]

There isn't an expansion tank that I'm aware of. I'll try bleeding and see if I can get some pics of the pipes in question. Thanks

 

[stevemachine]

So it doesnt do it if just one those two are on? Its definitely water hammer but it might be that one of the cartridges are shot on either of the two fixtures. Cant think of another solution thats a permanent fix. You can install hammer arrestors but something is causing the water hammer that shouldn't. Hammer arrestors are more like a band aid.

View attachment 1453860839592.jpg

 

[cadkins]

It only does it when both are on. When the kitchen faucet is turned back off it continues until you turn the shower off then it's not there when you turn the shower back on. Both faucets are under two years old.

 

[KULTULZ]

So it doesnt do it if just one those two are on? Its definitely water hammer but it might be that one of the cartridges are shot on either of the two fixtures.

Cant think of another solution thats a permanent fix.

How would you diagnose a bad cartridge(s)? Could piping not secured properly cause this?

You can install hammer arrestors but something is causing the water hammer that shouldn't. Hammer arrestors are more like a band aid.

Aren't they required in some instances by code now?

 

[stevemachine]

Correct. Something like a flush valve is where you need to put them. Only thing in a house that should cause water hammer would be a washing machine or i suppose people closing taps reaaalllyy fast. In this situation i wouldnt want them to install a hammer arrestor that is just masking another issue. I've heard of guys before having issues with water hammer due to faulty cartridges. And yeah loose piping could be a cause too. Just seems weird that it all of the sudden started. If it was from day one then id suspect loose piping more but hangers couldve come loose

 

[Mr_David]

Okay !let's back up a little bit.

What type of Shower valve do you have 2 or 3 handle fixture or a single handle mixing valve. IF single, is it a pressure balance valve.
same for the kitchen. 2 or single handle. Is the kitchen near the shower?

some times a rattle type banging is from a loose washer in a 2 or 3 handle valve.
Repair the shower valve being the noise continues after the kitchen is closed.
But you said the rattle is at the water heater. some heaters used to come with heat traps built into the supply nipples. the cold inlet would have a small ball that floats when there is no in coming water to heater.
the hot side would have a heavy ball that dropped to bottom of nipple when flow stopped.
These were supposed to conserve heat loss from heat convection up the supply lines when heater was not being used.

They tend to rattle but never seen them cause a loud banging rattle.

 

[KULTULZ]

But you said the rattle is at the water heater. some heaters used to come with heat traps built into the supply nipples. the cold inlet would have a small ball that floats when there is no in coming water to heater.the hot side would have a heavy ball that dropped to bottom of nipple when flow stopped.

These were supposed to conserve heat loss from heat convection up the supply lines when heater was not being used.

They tend to rattle but never seen them cause a loud banging rattle.

Forgot this little diddy of knowledge. WH noise(s) transmitted though the house supply piping.

Excerpt from - http://waterheaterreviews.com/what-is-a-heat-trap

A heat trap nipple typically has either a ball or, flap built into the nipple that blocks the flow of heat up out of the water heater into the pipes, yet moves out of the way when hot water is turned on allowing water to flow unobstructed. Many times water flowing though a heat trap nipple can generate noise with either the ball rattling in the flow or, the flap making a buzzing noise.

The manufacturer installs these things in an effort to be able to advertise the WH as more fuel efficient.