Vertical trigger float valve

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rustic_philosopher

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Hi,

I have a buried concrete water cistern i use for irrigation purposes. I have a pressurized line from my well running to the top of the cistern with a float valve currently but the water level can vary quite a bit and rise higher than expected due to water leaking into the tank during the rainy season (a different problem, but set it aside for the moment).

I am reworking the plumbing for the cistern and what I need is a vertical float valve basically where the float is vertical (stick down rather than to the side) and will push "up" when the water level rises to close the valve vs raising to the side because if the water rises too high it puts too much pressure on the pipe running into the cistern opening.

TL;DR - can someone point me to a float valve setup where the float arm moves straight up and down (this is easier for me to brace against) rather than as a lever to the side.

Thanks in advanced.
 
Thanks for the info! I am not familiar with the Jobe valves - are they worth the price? I saw a topvall valve that looks like the same thing but for way less but I dont know anything about the brands.
 
When filling a cistern you need a non-modulating float valve. Those old style toilet floats will vary the flow rate to the cistern and take a long time to fill the last inch or so, which will cause the well pump to cycle on and off a lot. A 24V electric (sprinkler) valve with flow control is my favorite as it is either fully open or fully closed.

wiring diagram for 24v solenoid, plug in trans, and float.png
 
Valveman said:
When filling a cistern you need a non-modulating float valve. Those old style toilet floats will vary the flow rate to the cistern and take a long time to fill the last inch or so, which will cause the well pump to cycle on and off a lot. A 24V electric (sprinkler) valve with flow control is my favorite as it is either fully open or fully closed.

View attachment 44258
Click to expand...
To be clear, my intake into the cistern running through the valve in question doesn't require a powered valve or pump. The line to the cistern is pressurized, the line running out of the cistern has a pressure switch going into the pressure tank. TL;DR - the valve in question is just there to stop the cistern from over filling. The trick I have is the variable water level as water can seep in - very slow rate, but enough to submerge a valve if placed close enough to the water level so a normal valve can work.

Any thoughts on my question about the upside down traditional brass float valve I mentioned on Sunday? Or the question on the quality of Jobe valves?
 
rustic_philosopher said:
The trick I have is the variable water level as water can seep in - very slow rate, but enough to submerge a valve if placed close enough to the water level so a normal valve can work.
Click to expand...
What you do not want is water "seeping" in slowly through the float valve. That is what causes the pump to cycle itself to death. Whatever valve you use needs to be either fully open or fully closed.

It doesn't take much power to run a solenoid valve. If you don't have a 110 plug you can use a battery, even a little solar charger will keep the battery charged.
 
Valveman said:
What you do not want is water "seeping" in slowly through the float valve. That is what causes the pump to cycle itself to death. Whatever valve you use needs to be either fully open or fully closed.

It doesn't take much power to run a solenoid valve. If you don't have a 110 plug you can use a battery, even a little solar charger will keep the battery charged.
Click to expand...
There is no pump cycles (if your talking a powered pump like would be pressurizing a tank) in this use case - it's not powered. There is just a pressurized line that empties into a cistern and the valve is only there to shut off the water at a fixed point
 
rustic_philosopher said:
I have a pressurized line from my well running to the top of the cistern with a float valve currently but the water level can vary quite a bit and rise higher than expected due to water leaking into the tank during the rainy season (a different problem, but set it aside for the moment).
Click to expand...
Does the well not have a pump?
 
Valveman said:
When filling a cistern you need a non-modulating float valve. Those old style toilet floats will vary the flow rate to the cistern and take a long time to fill the last inch or so, which will cause the well pump to cycle on and off a lot. A 24V electric (sprinkler) valve with flow control is my favorite as it is either fully open or fully closed.

View attachment 44258
Click to expand...
Hey valveman,
Sorry to interject into the thread... but..
Where do you get your solenoid valve with flow control.
The ones I've found seem cheap and very touchy with the flow control
 
Yeah, irrigation solenoid valve and either Omega float switch or https://a.co/d/20ztVMc (note you want the ‘pump to empty’ style) would seem to work best. If you need flow control, add an aporopriate (gate, ball, needle) valve after the solenoid.
 
I think there is some degree of confusion around the valve scenario I was describing. I have a well that is seperate from my cistern I use for irrigation purposes.

I have a line from the well that opens up at the top of my cistern that flows due to water pressure from my well. There is no electronic valve required at the cistern for water to go from my well -> cistern. I only need a way to close that valve which is where the question about a float valve comes in.

In terms of getting water out of the cistern, I have a submerged pump that pulls water out of the cistern but that is a totally different mechanism from what I am talking about in terms of the float valve.

So, my problem I need to solve is what float valve to use at the top of the cistern where water drops in so that the valve will shut and close the pressurized line running into the top of the cistern tank. The only real trick is that the water level can vary a bit in terms of what is the "top" due to ground water leaking in through the upper portion in the rainy season.

I am leaning toward a Jobe float valve with extenders on it but curious if anyone has experience with that.
 
If you want it to be totally unpowered (though I assume you have power for the outgoing water pressure system), then how about a toilet fill valve? They have a positive shutoff, easy to find and maintain (or replace), all you need is a "J" pipe fitting to have it upright at the right level in the tank.

[Aside: I use https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804300342312.html to read the water depth in my cistern, and plot current capacity (you can see we got a little rain this morning)]
1708440299072.png
 
Like was said, since you have a submersible booster pump in the cistern, there must be power at that location. The drawing I posted above shows how to use a plug in transformer to power a 24V electric valve controlled by a pump up float switch. The tether to the float switch can be adjusted to add as little or as much volume of water to the cistern as you want with each cycle of the float switch. I prefer this method because the electric solenoid valve with the flow control knob allows me to set the GPM that comes from the well pump. The GPM that fills the cistern needs to be enough to keep the well pump from cycling on and off, but not enough to drop the system pressure below 40 and cause the bladder in the tank to bottom out. The non modulating style Jobe valve will do pretty much the same thing without needing power, but you may need to throttle with an additional ball valve to control the GPM. A toilet type float valve varies the flow from the well pump and causes the well pump to cycle on and off many times as the last inch or so of the cistern is filled.

Cistern Storage Tank with Submersible Booster Pump 2 Homes.png
 
wpns said:
If you want it to be totally unpowered (though I assume you have power for the outgoing water pressure system), then how about a toilet fill valve? They have a positive shutoff, easy to find and maintain (or replace), all you need is a "J" pipe fitting to have it upright at the right level in the tank.

Yeah, its why I was asking about the Jobe valve as a similar mechanism. I could wire it up but I see no reason to as the valve opening or closing doesn't trigger the well pump to come on.
Click to expand...
 
Valveman said:
Like was said, since you have a submersible booster pump in the cistern, there must be power at that location. The drawing I posted above shows how to use a plug in transformer to power a 24V electric valve controlled by a pump up float switch. The tether to the float switch can be adjusted to add as little or as much volume of water to the cistern as you want with each cycle of the float switch.

View attachment 44389
Click to expand...

The thing I don't follow is why I would want to wire a solenoid at the top of my cistern? The valve opening does not cause the well pump to cycle on or off - the line just feeds out of the main pressure tank at the well so the small amount of water difference with the Jobe valve opening or closing would have to amount to the normal 20 PSI drop to kick on the well pump.

The filling of the tank works perfectly fine - its just wanting the line valve to close once the water reaches a specific level. I think the Jobe valve with an extender should do the trick even if the water rises higher than expected due to ground water seeping in since the extender can allow that larger offset in height.

I could wire something in but I am trying to understand what that would buy in exchange for the complexity?
 
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