Vent issue

[rudyjr]

Hello Everyone, I am an old school guy that has a plumbing problem I have never encountered:My daughter purchased a condo built in 2005 this year and has been experiencing issues with the second floor bathrooms. The unit is 2 and 1/2 baths with the 1/2 on the first floor and two full baths up. I noticed when working in the kitchen that the kitchen sink had a Studor vent and I also noticed that the four unit building has no vent pipes visible on the roof. Periodically when you flush the toilet in the master bath water is drawn down in the toilet bowl located in the other bath down the hall. You can also hear what sounds like water being pulled out of the shower drain trap in the master bath as well. Can anyone here give me some idea as to where they possibly would have located the other vent or vents for the upstairs baths and laundry. I know these are supposed to be accessible and I did not see any located in the attic, (unless they are covered in insulation). Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[phishfood]

Have you looked under the vanity in the bathrooms? That is a common spot to locate a Studor vent for the bathroom.

 

[rudyjr]

Yeah, looked under vanity's in both bathrooms upstairs. I am assuming that somehow the two upstairs baths and laundry share a vent somewhere. There is about two feet of blown in glass insulation in the attic and I was thinking it may be covered up if it is indeed up there. I know these are supposed to be accessible according to code. Is there any other places that it is common to locate these things?

 

[rudyjr]

Have you looked under the vanity in the bathrooms? That is a common spot to locate a Studor vent for the bathroom.

Well, I went to my daughters and moved everything out of the vanity in the master bath and lo and behold a 2 inch clean out between the sinks about 6-8 inches above the drain line height, undersized hole cut by the cabinet installers. I had called the plumbing contractor earlier in the day and he had told me that they usually installed these in the lavs depending on the bath layout. Looks as though they missed it on the finish 8 years ago! Hard to believe that nobody ever caught this in two previous owners. Pulled the cleanout and tested the toilets and everything works perfectly, now to install an aav and be done with it.

 

[phishfood]

Thanks for following up, though it does seem odd to me that this problem was never noticed before.

 

[rudyjr]

Thanks for following up, though it does seem odd to me that this problem was never noticed before.

We noticed that the drains acted funny when we looked at the condo last spring. The second bath down the hall does not get used much and she has always complained about the water being extremely low in that toilet.
It does seem odd that for eight years nobody had it checked out. First owner was a single woman, second owner a single guy, so who knows. But I feel confident that after talking to the owner of the plumbing company that the location of the missing vent is the vanity in the master bath. I am going to check the opposite end unit if the young lady who lives there will be kind enough to let me look just to be sure.

 

[rudyjr]

Well the saga continues. It turns out that the studor vents were used in the kitchen sink and the basement drain for the condensate line and there are conventional vents for the baths and the laundry room. I climbed into the attic and the vent pipe is behind the B vent for the furnace and does extend through the roof. Feel like an absolute idiot that I never noticed this but I had never done anything other than look in the attic at insulation and roof deck. Still should have seen it from the outside but was not easy to spot from the ground. This really has me baffled. The only thing I can come up with is an obstruction in the vent system somewhere. I checked below the insulation to make sure that no horizontal runs were filled with water because of improper slope. I shined a light through the pipe where it extends through the roof to see if there was anything apparent in the pipe and it "appears" to be clear, I will need to wait on the snow to melt to get up there. No trees or anything overhang or even close to this building. I am at a total loss on this! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[phishfood]

Headed out the door right now, but I am starting to wonder if you don't have a clogged drain problem.

 

[rudyjr]

Talked to an 83 year old retired plumber friend of my dads and explained what was going on. He asked me how everything functioned with the clean out removed and I told him everything seemed fine. He stated that by doing this I had verified that it was a vent issue. He asked me how far it was between the clean out and the vent pipe in the roof and I told him not very far. He suggested that I check and make sure that the test plug was removed from the top of the vent pipe. He said he has seen it left in many times in this area. He suggested that I cut it in the attic and push it out and glue a coupling in when I am done since there is about six inches of snow on the roof. Sounds to me that this could be it, sound reasonable to anyone else?

 

[phishfood]

I don't know why there would be a test plug in the vent on the second story roof, as this is usually the highest point, to which the drain pipes are filled when they are put under test. I guess it is possible, though.

 

[rudyjr]

I was told that they pressure test these with 5psi air in this area. I have seen tv shows where they show them filled on the roof as you said. I am in the electrical field so this is all new to me. It just seems odd that from the point that I took out the clean out to the termination at the roof is only about 10 feet and 2 90's. That alone would lead me to believe that the issue has to be between the clean out and the top of the stack.

 

[rudyjr]

Well the solution to this issue has finally been found. Turns out my dads 83 year old plumbing buddy was dead on with his assessment. I took the wifes binoculars with me to see if I could see anything from the ground before I went any further. Not only is the test plug or cap still on my daughters vent it is still on the other three units in her building as well! You can clearly see the cap with snow mounded up on top of all four. A four unit building with two and one half baths each, occupied since the summer of 2005! It is absolutely amazing that nobody has looked into this in that amount of time. All units have been occupied younger single women for most of the time since built and probably never questioned any of the odd things going on. The ones that still live there now tell me "oh yeah the drains have always run kinda slow". Talked to the plumbing contractor who did the plumbing and he said he is gonna have to see it for himself to believe it! Hopefully he will take care of it as soon as the snow disappears off the roof.

 

[Levine]

In Michigan it is common to place the vents behind fake heat registers because they feel it looks more natural than an access panel. First look in the bathrooms and walls abutting the bathrooms. The vent will be higher than the lavatory sink, most likely on the wall of the sink.

If it is not there, then it may in fact be in the attic. If it is buried under the insulation, then that would be an explanation as to why it is not working properly. Good luck, hope this helps!

 

[rudyjr]

In Michigan it is common to place the vents behind fake heat registers because they feel it looks more natural than an access panel. First look in the bathrooms and walls abutting the bathrooms. The vent will be higher than the lavatory sink, most likely on the wall of the sink.

If it is not there, then it may in fact be in the attic. If it is buried under the insulation, then that would be an explanation as to why it is not working properly. Good luck, hope this helps!

Looks like you missed my last post above yours. Thanks anyway, Jim