Utility sink smell... Motor and trap question Please help.

[bluebeat]

Hi everyone.
I have a utility sink in the bathroom that we use for laundry drain.
Sink is connected to the pump, grey water gets pumped to the main line.
There is no floor drain or such.

It produces sewer smell once it starts pumping grey water. As I understand it is because previous owner did not install P Trap. Motor is Hartell LTA 1
That what manual says: "the LTA pump mounts directly to the drain
tailpiece of your sink, eliminating all traps and inlet piping."

Well, it stinks at laundry days, so my guess it needs the trap. A plumber that I spoke with told me that I have to replace the motor in order to install the trap because this motor outdated and can not "sit" on the ground and is too heavy for PVC pipes to be lifted in air. I am trying to avoid costly motor replacement. Can anybody suggest logical solution?
P.S. Including photo of the setup.
Thanks in advance,
Mike.

 

[bluebeat]

Additionally, looking at my setup of LT1 motor, I do not see "check valve" installed inline. Not sure, maybe I have older unit and check valve is within the casing? Hartell website said clearly that no traps, inlet piping / vents are needed for this LT1 unit. I am just guessing here, if to install a check valve, maybe that would stop the sewer smell when doing the laundry,

 

[Caduceus]

The manual shows that the check valve is included and in the photo it looks like there is a check valve on the pipe to the right of the motor. Maybe a better picture would prove otherwise, but if the check valve gets stuck open, you could be getting sewer gas back through the drain. There is no mention of an integral check valve in the LT1 literature.
Is this something that has always happened or is the sewer smell a new development?

 

[bluebeat]

Thank you for the reply!
This is only happening when doing laundry. I believe I have a "union" attached to the line but not the check valve. Pictures attached. Do you think installing one would solve odor discharge or I need something else as additional trap?

 

[bluebeat]

And I thought my question was simple...

 

[frodo]

the mounting bracket holes are there for you to mount the pump anyway you wish.
build a frame to support pump, so that the weight is not on the pvc pipe. your plumber has no vision or is lazy

 

[Caduceus]

As per the manufacturer instructions a check valve is needed as well as in a standard installation. I refer back to manufacturer only because most codes will do the same when dealing with a specified design.
So, simply put, adding the proper check valve should help you out unless what frodo points to in his picture is actually the check, it may be stuck open.

 

[speedbump]

In the drawing it mentions minimum 1" discharge. That sure looks like 3/4" copper to me.

 

[Caduceus]

In the drawing it mentions minimum 1" discharge. That sure looks like 3/4" copper to me.

There is also mention of 3/4" discharge in the literature, speed, but I would have stuck to 1" only because of volume concerns.

"1” piping and valves are recommended; however 3/4” piping and
valves may be substituted in installations where lift requirements are
less than six (6) feet..."

 

[Caduceus]

I would not recommend this piping arrangement;

 

[bluebeat]

THANK YOU everyone!
I just wish there would be more plumbers with your knowledge in my area.
What it looks like the brass bulb with switch on top is a shutoff and not check valve, there is no check valve in line.

I think the best would be to leave pump where it is and change the whole line from the pump to main line and include check and shutoff valves and see if it will solve stink problem. If it does not help, then I will use frodo's advice to make a bracket for the pump and install standard P trap.

The only question stands is that Hartell pump company does not publish parts list and I am not sure if the check valve that was originally included is a proprietary part or I can use a generic one....

Thanks,
Mike.

 

[speedbump]

There is also mention of 3/4" discharge in the literature, speed, but I would have stuck to 1" only because of volume concerns.

I guess I should have read it all.

there is no check valve in line.

That sure looks like a 3/4" swing check to me. Right where the manufacturer's drawing showed it. Can you get the cap off of it and see if it has a swing gate inside?

 

[Caduceus]

????Maybe????

 

[speedbump]

Yup, the arrow is a dead giveaway.

 

[frodo]

out of curiosity, Caduceus why would you not put a trap on the pump. it would do no harm, and it would keep the smell of sour water from inside the pump to the ck valve from coming into the house. just my opinion,


as far as the size of your discharge line. I would not install anything LESS than 1 1/4'' with a reducer directly on the discharge of the pump

 

[frodo]

http://screencast.com/t/wqfOQdqUU

his ck valve is going the correct way..[ ..I think ] its hard to see. the nut on the rear of the ck for the hinge

is usually in the rear.

 

[Caduceus]

out of curiosity, Caduceus why would you not put a trap on the pump. it would do no harm, and it would keep the smell of sour water from inside the pump to the ck valve from coming into the house. just my opinion,


as far as the size of your discharge line. I would not install anything LESS than 1 1/4'' with a reducer directly on the discharge of the pump

Manufacturer does not allow for your design. More than likely because it will screw up the operation of the flow switch and cycling of the motor.

 

[bluebeat]

If the brass piece is a check valve, I can not unscrew the top cap to see the flap. Too tight (I am not a weak guy, but I am afraid I will break the pipe if I try harder) There was one instance couple of years ago, where water tried to back up, and I believe that this utility pump worked trying to pump it away, meaning that probably check valve flap got stuck and allowed water back to the pump. It looks like this pipe needs a replacement in any case, I will try to replace it and put a new check valve to see if the odor would still be there. I will update this thread once I do that. Thanks for the support!!!

 

[bluebeat]

Oh well, I replaced lines with pex, replaced check valve. See attached.
Hoping for the best... My wife started doing laundry, but unfortunately odor came back.
It drives me a bit crazy as It clearly states that this pump does not need P trap in the manual. I tried calling Hartell, but no use...they do not have customer service and all of the distributors they gave me have little or no knowledge of this pump. I narrowed it down to two causes of the smell:

1) Pump poorly designed, does not allow water in, but allowing some air(gas) in from sewer line. Does not function as fully contained unit. that is why I smell odor.
2) Pump is defective.

Strange part is that Hartell seems to be a well known name and these pumps are not cheap...

The only solution I could come up with before giving up on this pump is installing an S-Trap from the sink going down from the sink to pump and mounting pump to the floor, that way vertical position of the pump would stay the same. Please see second image of my plan B and kindly suggest if this is something worth trying.

I thank you in advance!
Mike.

 

[frodo]

how does the pex tie into the sewer?