Upstairs Bathtub Faucet Won't Run or Drain

[olsenjb]

We live in a newer home...built in 2007 in Utah. Last winter, one day, out of the blue, our upstairs bathtub faucet (moen) started just running at a slow trickle despite it being turned off. It didn't matter whether we turned it on or off, it just kept running at a slow trickle. Also, the bathtub wouldn't drain. The trickle kept going for about 1/2 a day, then suddenly just stopped. If we turned the faucet on, it would just come out as a trickle, but never more. And, the water still wouldn't drain from the tub. We tried hot water thinking maybe it had frozen, but nothing. We let the water stand in the tub for a couple of days and we were about to call a plumber when I went upstairs and the water had drained. I turned on the faucet, and it worked perfectly...no trickle with full water pressure and it drained normally. Since that day, we've had no other problems or issues whatsoever with it.

Well, this morning, when my boy went to shower in it, no water at all would come from the faucet...nothing. Not even a drip. I didn't do anything for a few hours while we got the kids off to school. When I got home, I went up there and turned it on and it worked fine again...full water pressure, no problem. Except...now the tub won't drain again.

I'm at a loss...I have no idea what would cause it to do this. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help.

 

[havasu]

Is it possible your pipes are freezing?

 

[olsenjb]

Well...I thought that except do drain pipes ever really freeze? And if the drain was frozen, would have pouring hot water into the tub have done the trick?

 

[havasu]

Drain traps will freeze. I don't think hot water would do much good. Are your pipes exposed in a basement or exterior wall? If so, I would check to make sure they were well insulated, and it may be necessary to keep some heat inside while you are away.

 

[olsenjb]

All pipes are exposed in the basement...not just the ones that run up to this bathroom which is on the 2nd floor. And, the lines to the toilet and sink in this same bathroom were just fine. So, it must just be the lines and drain to the bathtub, which does sit against an exterior wall.

Problem is the builders didn't leave any access into the walls for this tub/shower. So, I'm going to have to cut holes in the wall and/or the ceiling of our garage (since the bathroom sits over the garage) to get to the pipes to insulate them.

 

[havasu]

Before ripping out drywall, have you considered piping in some warm air into the basement and/or garage in order to keep the pipes warm?

 

[olsenjb]

No...I haven't considered that. I don't think the basement is the issue since all pipes going to every faucet in the home are exposed in the basement, but it's only this one bathtub that's having a problem. So, I think it's probably more an issue of the pipes running near an exterior wall on the north side of the house and being over a cold garage.

I guess I could try piping warm air into the garage, but that almost seems like more work than cutting some holes in drywall and insulating pipe. Would putting a space heater in the bathroom on cold nights do any good you think?

 

[havasu]

I would not hurt, but may be unsafe, depending on what type of heater you use. I'd just hate to see drywall ripped down unless absolutely necessary. How about injected foam insulation or blown in insulation into the wall pockets in order to insulate the pipes?

I'm sure there are other trade secrets which plumbers use in cold weather climates, and hope they chime in with other ideas.

 

[olsenjb]

Got the same suggestion today and I think it's a good idea...cut a small access hole and fill the void with blown-in insulation. Seems like a good fix with minimal need of tearing out drywall.

 

[havasu]

Please reply when it is done and let us know how it worked for you!

 

[olsenjb]

So...one more question. Do you think I need to cut an access hole to make sure the trap didn't split/crack when it frozen?

 

[havasu]

I would personally inspect for damage before spending the time and money insulating up there but once the area thaws, you should find out soon enough if you have any damage.

 

[olsenjb]

It's thawed...It actually thawed after only a few hours on the day we discovered it. So, I'm reasonably certain the waterline didn't burst since I haven't noticed any water. But, I do fear that the trap could have cracked and is dripping which would take some time before I noticed a water spot in the garage ceiling (under the tub)...especially since this tub is only used maybe 2-3 times/week. Anyway, like you said, I think it would be best to make sure nothing is leaking in there before we insulate it.

 

[havasu]

So, the big question I have is when it thawed, did the plumbing work OK?

 

[olsenjb]

Yeah...plumbing worked fine. Unfortunately, I have no access into the wall to determine if the trap cracked. If it did, the ensuing drip from the crack wouldn't be noticeable for some time. I wouldn't find it until a water stain showed up in the ceiling of our garage. I assume the supply lines are okay since I think that would have become obvious pretty quickly if they burst.

 

[havasu]

Other things to consider are the obvious lack of a vapor barrier and any other air penetration which would feed the cold air into the void where the pipes are located. Just think this dilemma out throughly, so you don't unnecessarily punch holes in your drywall unless absolutely necessary.

 

[olsenjb]

Sorry...I'm not familiar with vapor barriers. How would it apply to my situation?

 

[havasu]

A vapor barrier or house wrap is essential to stop cold air penetration and protect from moisture. In your case, if there was a way to stop the air penetration, your pipes may not have become frozen. I mention it because you may have exposed soffits you might want to look at before dealing with the blown in insulation.

 

[olsenjb]

Just wanted to give you an update. Earlier this week, it froze again except this time both the shower and toilet froze, while the sink still did not.

Anyway, we cut access holes into the wall behind the shower as well as access holes in the garage ceiling under the bathroom. We found the areas to be inadequately insulated and we could feel the cold air moving through the joists. We also found that the lines to the sink ran along the heating duct to the bathroom. We assumed this was why the sink hadn't froze.

We decided on blowing insulation into a number of areas in the hopes it will reduce the cold air flow that seems to be reaching the pipes.

It's been 3 days since we blew in the insulation, and so far, so good. It has definitely reduced the cold air flowing under the bathroom floor...I still haven't repaired the one access hole which has allowed me to check to see if cold air is still seeping in and it doesn't seem to be. Hopefully the additional insulation will do the trick. I just wanted to thank you for your thoughts and input in helping me solve this problem.

 

[havasu]

I'm glad you are getting to the root of the problem. What gets me mad is when home builders in cold weather areas perform shortcuts like they obviously did in your home. They ought to be tarred, feathered, and run out of town! Hell, I live in Southern California and it has never snowed here, but I have the common sense to consider what cold weather can and will do to plumbing. OK, I'm done venting!