two commercial bathroom questions

[meade]

hi,

we are renovating a very old two story building. the upstairs is our home, the downstairs is not complete. im slowly getting the pieces need to build basically two simple bathrooms in the downstairs.

question 1- we've been to casino's before that had auto faucets that had the perfect temperature come out. without a water heater, can i do with this a mixing valve and a tankless water heater? possibility for this space could be hall so if it had repeated use, i want to make sure it stays a nice temperature.

question 2- we've been on the road before and a commercial tankless autoflushing toilet had blue water/bleach tablet mounted to it somehow. i contacted toto and a few other manufacturers but they thought i was dreaming. these toilets had no tanks though, were commercial, and it wasnt just one. i flushed, all the toilets had it, all the water was blue like a bleach tablet. i haven't had luck on google finding the attachment to do this? any help?

cheers

 

[Caduceus]

There are all sorts of attachments for toilets and the toilet manufacturers have little or nothing to do with them. Some hook to the bowl rim and have a small cage that holds a blue or pink tablet and the water flowing from the port holes runs over the tablet. There are so many on the market that they should be easy to find at home improvement or grocery stores near the cleaning products.
Now, if you saw blue water and didn't notice an attachment to the toilet then the water was treated or reclaimed water for toilet/urinal use only. It was not the toilet creating the blue water.
As far as auto faucets are concerned, I don't recommend them for residential use for a number of reasons.
1. If you ever want just hot or just cold water you have eliminated that option for your faucet. Commercial buildings have codes that require certain temps and safeguards that these faucets are designed to accommodate that are not practical for home use.
2. More mechanical parts require maintenance. Maintenance people behind the scenes keep the faucets running when something goes wrong with them and with mechanical and electronic parts you accept that responsibility which can be more of a pain than it's worth.
3. Warranties are more limited (usually one year) and replacement parts can be more expensive (solenoids, corroded battery packs, etc.) than a residential faucet with a lifetime warranty. Long warranties on commercial faucets usually apply to the valve body only, which is typically not the problem when something goes wrong.
4. I have installed them in several homes at the owners request to find out later they want it removed for the one or all of the reasons listed above. You are now spending twice the money and frustrated yourself because something so simple became a real headache.

But to answer your question, yes. You can install a point of use water heater and tempering valve to give yourself that perfect water temp on a faucet. A local plumbing supply house that retails could give you a list of faucets or a manufacturer website can too. I can't recommend a specific brand because all seem to be similar in reliability and options.

 

[meade]

for the toilet, i wondered if it was a grey water system too but the autoflusher on the toilet seemed to have a weird pipe off to the side which had a screw on it that i figured is where the bleach tablet was. it also was at a small crappy gas station, nothing was dropped into the toilet, no hanger for a chip and no hose cord that dropped in the cleaner, so i really couldnt tell where the blue dye/cleaner was coming from so i assumed it was the weird pipe/cap to the side. it sized up about right. i attached a very crappy mspaint drawing of what i saw, of course my phone was dead at the time and i didnt snap the picture and it was quite a distance away from us to remember where exactly it was or i would of call the store.

 

[meade]

as for the faucet, the commercial bathroom will have one of those sloan[or like] auto sensing faucets, no handles. i just dont want super cold water coming out [in the midwest] and hate when i go to a bathroom and try to add some warm water then pow, water so hot it feels like it could be used for hot chocolate comes out. most casinos around here i noticed have the perfect temperature coming out but i looked under the sink and cannot find what mechanism they are using. of course, the staff is clueless to what the construction company put in.

 

[meade]

i did a little more research on ebay and did find something valve a mixing valve. i believe that is what i was looking for for the automatic faucet. you can adjust via a dial the hot/cold that is being mixed into the faucet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130802711741
-------------


i am still unable to locate commercial toilet hidden bleach tablets/parts?

 

[jdc]

Yes, you will need a thermostatic mixing valve for a sensor faucet. However, unless you have a circulating pump or a point of use water heater, it is going to take a bit for the water to get warm. While the thought of a sensor faucet has its appeal, I've never suggested one for a residential application. Most people want to be in control of how hot or cold the water is (in my case, I want HOT HOT water when shaving). But that being said, to each their own. I recently installed 57 Zurn sensor faucets at a stadium. Last year at the same stadium I installed 48 Sloan sensor faucets. Both work quite well and the folks who run the place are pleased with them.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=842

http://products.eemax.com/SP3512

As for the toilet...I've never seen a commercial toilet with anything like a cleanser inlet. I'm not saying there is no such thing, its just that I've never seen one and I've installed well...alot of commercial toilets. The tube you saw coming off the flushometer valve may have been a trap primer. We use them quite often to keep water in the floor drains. The attach at the vacuum tube on the flushometer, go into the wall, drop through the slab then go on to the floor drain.

Good luck!

 

[meade]

thanks for getting back to me! i will check these out. to clarify though, we live upstairs however the downstairs will be a commercial space. its a 160yr old commercial building that is 2 stories.

ill keep my eyes pealed for the blue dye again and take a photo. not knowing anything about plumbing but i am planning this bathroom with an architect, i just want to make sure its a pretty thought out plan. hence why i am on a plumbing forum. its been my experience an architect can draw but most of the time, in the field people know what works and what does not. i dont want any after thoughts. what would be the reason for keeping water in the floor drain?

attached is the plan so far if anyone wants to chime in some input. its an ada bathroom. also, i thought about maybe putting floor drains under the urinals if it becomes a bar its setup. i cant stand using a urinal and have to do a karate split to avoid the circle of piss below.

 

[meade]

jdc, so my understanding is then all i need to do is have a cold water supply then purchase the heater and it will do the rest for the perfect temp out of the automatic faucet?

 

[jdc]

you'll only need a cold supply going to the water heater. Some of the Eemax heaters (the brand I am most familiar with) have an adjustable thermostat while others dont. It all depends on the model. Per code, we are not to rely on the water heater thermostat for tempered water and are required to install a thermostatic mixing valve that is ASSE 1070 compliant.

As far as the floor drain is concerned, a floor drain is a trapped fixture. You need to keep water in the trap to prevent sewer gases from escaping. I looked at your drawing and it looks good, however I dont see any floor drains in the bathrooms. Check your local code on that. I've always installed a floor drain in a commercial restroom. Additionally, in Kentucky (where I do work from time to time) a hosebib is also required in all commercial restrooms. I've never seen anyone actually use said hosebib...they're just required. Go figure, eh?

 

[meade]

so one heater per faucet? or could one heater work for two faucets? also, at constant use is it able to keep up?

definitely going to have floor drains. i thought it would be awesome to design this bathroom where i could just literally hose the walls down after spraying tilex or something. that would come in handy. kind of like a home improvement/tim allen mans bathroom haha