Toilet Venting Issue...Maybe

[bknifefight]

Hello everyone. Thank you in advance for any help you may provide me. I have no plumbing experience and would like some advice from more knowledgeable people.

My toilet is having problems. It is clogged and I have determined that there is nothing in the toilet causing the clog. When the toilet was pulled, I was able to dump about 15 gallons of water (quickly) down the pipe below with no backing up issue. When the toilet is attached and flushed, it does not flush.

Our system has two air admittance valves (AAV) on it, one for the toilet, one for a sink. Upon removing the toilet AAV, it flushes great. I have tried replacing the AAV with a new, working one and it did not fix the issue. (we know it works because it was from my dad's system and works properly there)

My thought it that I should vent the toilet line outside, which is what I believe it should be to be up to code. My wife feels like there is a greater problem at play here and we should have the line snaked by a professional.

I guess my question is, if the AAV worked for so many years (the entire time we've lived there and however long the previous owners lived there after redoing the bathroom), is the venting the real issue here? Could something else cause issues that would require more air to be sucked in, which the AAV cannot provide?

Thank you all for any help or information you can provide.

 

[bknifefight]

Talking to several local plumbers today over lunch led me to believe this is in fact a venting issue. One plumber had a similar experience in his house (current venting system was suddenly not enough, without reason). Everyone agrees that an outside vent is the solution to the problem.

I am able to run a temporary outside vent through the wall and under a porch, which is not being used due to winter. If this works, when the weather improves, we will have the vent properly run through the roof of the house.

 

[turdcutter]

Your problem I believe is not a venting issue. It sounds like your system is airlocked. Either the city sewage is backed up or if you have septic that is backed up.

 

[bknifefight]

Would the septic being backed up cause the pressure/air issues I am experiencing?

 

[turdcutter]

Yes it's like turning a full bottle of soda upside down and trying to empty it out. The air underneath the toilet has nowhere to escape to. When you remove the toilet and put water down the drain the air can escape and the waste water will over flow most likely out of the man hole cover

 

[bknifefight]

Thank you for your suggestions. Is it unheard of to have a septic tank pumped out in the middle of winter? Here in North West PA we just had quite a bit of snow. Is it an urgent matter that should be dealt with ASAP or should I wait until spring?

 

[turdcutter]

No definatly not unheard of. Im a plumber in north east nj myself. I would attend to that situation immediatly. If you are able, pull the lid on the septic or look around the septic lid to see any waste (toilet paper) and then call a septic/ sewage company and they will be more than happy to assist you. After all your number 2 is their number 1

 

[bknifefight]

I am going to try and find the septic tank and dig up the lid this weekend. I have called several companies that can pump it and the cheapest option is also the one who said that they would come out on Monday and do it, even if I called them Monday morning.

When I open it, will it be obvious if the tank needs pumped? Should I look for anything specific? At this point, the tank has never been pumped in the 3.5 years I have lived there, so it is probably due to be done anyways. Maybe I should just make the appointment now?

 

[turdcutter]

Ya it would be obvious. If its been 3 and a half years...go now..make the appointment. When they come out set up a yearly cleaning

 

[bknifefight]

Okay, so here is an update.

On Saturday, my dad and I replaced the AAV with a piece of PVC which was routed out the side wall and outside. The toilet was flushing great after this. I put our original toilet back in place. It continued to flush great.

On Monday, the septic tank was pumped. When it was empty, the guy had be bucket flush the toilet and add a bacteria culture. He said it flowed into the septic fine. It was flushing fine.

Starting Wednesday morning, the toilet no longer flushes all that great. Plunging it a little will allow you to flush it several times in a row fine. When emptying the bathtub, the toilet will clug and bubble.

What is interesting about the toilet clugging with the bathtub is drained is, the new air vent going outside is on the line for the bathtub. You'd think if there was air in the piping, it would be released there?

Any ideas, turdcutter?

 

[phishfood]

It is starting to sound like you have a partial clog/damaged pipe in your drain line that sometimes catches toilet paper etc, and causes problems. Most of the time, things that seem to be a vent issue are actually clogged drains.

 

[bknifefight]

Is it safe to assume that this is down line from the toilet since it is only affecting the toilet? We may have a plumber come in and professionally snake it out if that is the case.

 

[phishfood]

Since the tub is causing the toilet to gurgle, it is downstream of the junction of the two. The toilet should be pulled so that a full size cutter can be used.

 

[bknifefight]

What is a cutter? I have an appointment tomorrow to have the line professionally snaked out. I hope this is the end of the issue.

 

[turdcutter]

I agree. Snaking it would be your next best bet. A cutter is a tip on the snake used to break up whatever is in its path. Was your septic tank full?

 

[Caduceus]

If the septic was pumped, you my be looking at a partial drain pipe blockage. 'Glugging' in the tub is also a symptom of that. Once a septic system gets backed up from the tank, solids will continue to lay in the pipe, since they had no free-flowing destination. turdcutter was definitely leading you in the right direction and after 3.5 years I'm sure your septic was in need of servicing.
Adding an outside vent will relieve the back pressure associated with a clog that an AAV will not provide. AAVs let air into the plumbing system, not out. If the toilet is effected by a clog as you described, the clog should not be too far from the toilet flange unless your sewer is constantly holding a good amount of residual water farther down stream. Removing the toilet, or using a clean out access before the clog, and augering the sewer should give you some good results.

 

[Caduceus]

OOPS! Look at silly-ol' me posting and NOT looking at page two of the thread. Sorry to be redundant in my advice, guys...I got too excited about having a night off and couldn't control myself.