This Old House

[johnjh2o]

Take a look at this from this old house. What a joke, this is how they advise to install a 2nd sink.
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20804030,00.html

 

[phishfood]

Holy plumbing gods!!

Where did he get his license from?!?

 

[Matt30]

Jesus....Frodo is everywhere! (Check the comments)

A lot of uproar about no second p-trap, but I do believe it shows a very quick shot of him installing it near the end.

Either way. It's not vented properly. Poor Erica

 

[KULTULZ]

Please explain.

What did he do wrong?

 

[Mr_David]

The 2nd line is added to a trap arm from the 1st sink.
That's a NO NO.
two trap arms can connect to single drain stack with a double fixture tee thus having a common vent.
You cannot put 2 traps on the a single trap arm.
The video does not show the installation of an AAV, but he put a tee behind the drawers. Probably for an AAV.

Even with the AAV It is not okay to connect the 2nd drain to a trap arm of another fixture.


California plumbing Code

Other jurisdiction are pretty much the same.

1001.1 Each plumbing fixture, excepting those having integral traps or as permitted in Section 1001.2, shall be separately trapped by an approved type of water seal trap. Not more than one (1) trap shall be permitted on a trap arm.

1001.2 One (1) trap shall be permitted to serve a set of not more than three (3) single compartment sinks or laundry tubs of the same depth or three (3) lavatories immediately adjacent to each other and in the same room if the waste outlets are not more than thirty (30) inches (762 mm) apart and the trap is centrally located when three (3) compartments are installed. Other sinks connected together before it get to the trap

 

[gendow]

His 1 and 1/2" trap arm for the new sink may be longer than the max 3 feet 6 inches. I also thought that each trap needs a separate vent. And his wye tie in looks weird going up and over instead of branching straight across.

 

[frodo]

Jesus....Frodo is everywhere! (Check the comments)

 

[Matt30]

And his wye tie in looks weird going up and over instead of branching straight across.

Definitely putting him over his 1.5" of grade before he hits the vent as well. Man....this guy is unreal.

 

[Mr_David]

I posted a comment to his work as well.
I wonder how long they will last before he removes them?
Gonna go see if it's still there.

That tee I thought was for an AAV looks more like a cleanout tee with a plug in it.

 

[phishfood]

IF he actually put an AAV in the drain line for the second sink somewhere, then it will meet IPC code. I didn't see where he did, and if he were to have done so, I would think he would have made sure to point it out.

 

[KULTULZ]

The 2nd line is added to a trap arm from the 1st sink.

That's a NO NO.

two trap arms can connect to single drain stack with a double fixture tee thus having a common vent.

You cannot put 2 traps on the a single trap arm.

The video does not show the installation of an AAV, but he put a tee behind the drawers. Probably for an AAV.

Even with the AAV It is not okay to connect the 2nd drain to a trap arm of another fixture.

Damn you guys are good.

THANX for the lesson...

 

[frodo]

his funky drain connection is 270 degrees with out a co

I believe one is required

 

[Mr_David]

IF he actually put an AAV in the drain line for the second sink somewhere, then it will meet IPC code. I didn't see where he did, and if he were to have done so, I would think he would have made sure to point it out.

Could you enlighten us on the fact that it would meet IP code if it had an AAV.
Codes are funny because they are sometimes hard to interpret, Kind of like the Holy Bible.

Here is what I found in the Florida IP Code.
The first snip I posted below.
My interpretation would be
The red highlight is referring to a double fixture tee
The blue is saying 2 traps with a common vent downstream of the interconnection of the 2 traps. ( is how I read in to it.)

The second line does not meet the slope requirements.
WITH an AAV installed would mean that it 2nd line would not have a common vent and the 270 degree turn/connection at the existing trap
is an improper connection.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on any code. There has been a lot of chatter here on PF about venting. and p-traps.

Just trying see why this would be acceptable with an AAV installed? As stated by Phish

Edit : forgot the snips from Florida IPC.

 

[frodo]

chapter 10, upc
1001.1
not more than 1 trap shall be permited on a trap arm

1001.2

1 trap may serve a set of not moe than 3 single compartment sinks or laundry tubs of th same debth or 3 lav's immediately adajacent to each other and in the same room
if the outlets are not more than 30 inchs apart

only way that bozo can installthat sink is to cut the wall, and install a drain and vent

 

[Mr_David]

chapter 10, upc

Can you find the same thing in the IPC? Phish was referring to IPC and I was looking in the Florida Code

and I forgot to post the snips I copied from there.

 

[phishfood]

Could you enlighten us on the fact that it would meet IP code if it had an AAV.
Codes are funny because they are sometimes hard to interpret, Kind of like the Holy Bible.

Here is what I found in the Florida IP Code.
The first snip I posted below.
My interpretation would be
The red highlight is referring to a double fixture tee
The blue is saying 2 traps with a common vent downstream of the interconnection of the 2 traps. ( is how I read in to it.)

The second line does not meet the slope requirements.
WITH an AAV installed would mean that it 2nd line would not have a common vent and the 270 degree turn/connection at the existing trap
is an improper connection.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on any code. There has been a lot of chatter here on PF about venting. and p-traps.

Just trying see why this would be acceptable with an AAV installed? As stated by Phish

Edit : forgot the snips from Florida IPC.

Section 909, Wet Venting. 909.1 and 909.2
Quick version is that any combination of fixtures within 2 bathroom groups on the same floor are allowed to be vented by a vertical or horizontal wet vent.

Now IF the vertical in the wall behind the orignal lavatory is 1 1/2", then adding a second lavatory will exceed the maximum 1 DFU allowed by Table 909.3. But I will put up a dollar against a doughnut that said vertical pipe is 2".

 

[frodo]

Can you find the same thing in the IPC? Phish was referring to IPC and I was looking in the Florida Code

and I forgot to post the snips I copied from there.

I dont have an IPC book,

 

[Mr_David]

Section 909, Wet Venting. 909.1 and 909.2
Quick version is that any combination of fixtures within 2 bathroom groups on the same floor are allowed to be vented by a vertical or horizontal wet vent.

Now IF the vertical in the wall behind the orignal lavatory is 1 1/2", then adding a second lavatory will exceed the maximum 1 DFU allowed by Table 909.3. But I will put up a dollar against a doughnut that said vertical pipe is 2".

Okay,
That meaning that both sinks are connected to the vertical stack ( 2" Min)
One santee stacked above another would be a vertical wet vent. Does not apply to this installation.


Now if you are saying the horizontal section of pipe after the wye is a horizontal wet vent, then, Does the horizontal wet vent also have to be 2" after the interconnection of the 2 p-traps? That is, if the 2 trap arms are at the same level. Like the 2 photo examples. YOU CAN DO THAT?

Even if you could double trap like the photos and the shared trap arm increase to 2" does not apply to this installation.

the previous statement you made that if you add an AAV that drain would meet code. You now have a vented ( AAV ) waste line tied into a trap arm of another sink. NO BUENO. Maybe if the 2nd sink trap arm is at the same level as the original and it does not exceed the max trap arm length.

 

[phishfood]

No, what I am saying is that the higher pipe of the two with the "maybe" AAV can be the wet vent for the lower trap.

 

[phishfood]

I dont have an IPC book,

Click on Mr. David's hot link, and download it to your computer.

I have used that same download link to get the code book on 3 different tablets over the past few years.