Re-plumbing entire house

JoeBean · Oct 7, 2011

Hi all,
We just bought a house with a for-all-intents-and-purposes unfinished basement that we're putting an apartment in for my mother-in-law. The house is about 20 years old and well built for the most part, but the homeowner plumbed it himself and it's a godawful mess. So I'm planning on tearing most everything out and replacing. With that in mind I have a few questions:

1. The supply line is 1/2" copper. I'm worried it'll be too small to keep up so I intend to upgrade it. So with regard to this:
Would you suggest 3/4", 1", or larger?
And would you recommend PEX or soft copper? There's already a separate grounding electrode for the electrical system.

2. I'd prefer to run PEX for ease of installation. Which system would you recommend? I'm inclined to go with Wirsbo due to it's reputation, but it's not used much (and so few components are stocked at the local plumbing supply stores) around here so everything will have to be ordered in, and my wife is worried that we might have a failure at some point and then be stuck waiting for parts. Crimp systems are the most common around here. How do they stack up? Are there differences between brands? And what about clamp systems?

3. Venting is the biggest problem. Currently all drains are coming off of 2 stacks at one end of the house, approximately 12' apart. Neither stack is vented directly. One stack, which currently services the kitchen sink, dishwasher, and the laundry room has an AAV installed on it. The kitchen sink also has an AAV, and there's another one (!) on the run to the washer. All of the fixtures are with 5' of the stack. The 2nd stack just services the washroom. One line runs from the vanity to the stack, about 2' total, with an AAV at the vanity. The second line starts at the only actual vent pipe in the house and goes about 2' uphill to the tub drain, then another 10' to the toilet drain, then 3' to the stack.
Venting has me the most confounded as I've never been able to find anything stating clearly the proper way to do it, and much of the info I have found is contradictory. So my 2 questions for this are:
Would it be sufficient to vent the top of both stacks in addition to a properly ran vent where the existing vent is situated? This, of course, isn't taking into account the extra fixtures to be added in the apartment - I just want to know if I'm understanding what should have been done.
What resources (online or books) would you recommend reading to cover plumbing code requirements for Canada?

Thanks a lot for any help you can give. I very much appreciate it!

LiQuId · Oct 7, 2011

I will start by saying that you really need to hire a plumber, it would make life much easyer for you, even if you only had them in to do the drainage and venting.

What resources (online or books) would you recommend reading to cover plumbing code requirements for Canada?

Books here in canada, You need a plumbing code book Availablle at any technical college. However having the book will not tell you how to properly read/interperit the code.

You need to have at least one 3" stack continuing up to a stack vent also in 3" and it must be increased to 4" right before it penetrates the roof.

you MUST understand how to cound both DWV AND Water line Fixture units, and how to use the applicablle tables.

..every fixture must have a p-trap installed ( except the toilet which has an integeral s-trap )

Would it be sufficient to vent the top of both stacks in addition to a properly ran vent where the existing vent is situated?

I could only properly answer this if i were to see the current cofiguration.

Would you suggest 3/4", 1", or larger?
Depends on the total fixture load. 3/4 is usually the minimum and 3/4 is what your Hot water tank accepts without dowsizing, many homes have 1" there are 4 different tables in the canadian code to reference, you MUST get the right one or you will be undersized and there are other factors that will effect the sizing ( this is why we go to school for 4 years )

And would you recommend PEX or soft copper?
Pex for the ease of istallation especially in your case ( not trying to sound like a dick here... really )

Which system would you recommend?

Wirsbos warranty is only valid if installed by a licenced plumber, same with pex.
Wirsbo will cost you more for tools and line. Pex, I like the copper crimp rings myself but any crimp system will work.

There is NO WAY this house passed an inspection.

AAV's are ONLY allowed in island sink locations or in renovations to EXISTING APPROVED installations... this house, again was not inspected.

If your wife is worryd she has good reason to be, waterlines not properly installed will not have sufficiant volume to deliver to the fixtures, drainage pipes that arnt properly sized will back up and if they arnt properly installed or vented they can potentially cause death or explosion from gasses present in the sewer systems... this is NO JOKE .

I understand you want to save money, but you REALLY REALLY need to hire a plumber to do all this work or you will cause your family much greif and dispair and you will not save money when your hime fails inspection.

here are some very basic drainage/venting question.

"how many degrees of change are allowed on a DFU branch before it is served by a vent"?

"can you use a single Hot water tank and a single furnace to serve multiple dwellings contained by a single building envelope" ?

What is the minimum size of wet vent that may serve a Water closet" ?

"can 2 lavs be served by a 1/2" line" ?

"what is the maximum fall of a 1 1/2 trap arm? and can multiple p traps be installed on a single branch served by only 1 vent"

If you cannot answer these then you have no buisness in plumbing your house. ( again not trying to come off like an A hole )

please consider hiring someone, it is in YOUR best interests. some of these examples ( there are MANY more ) above will cause sewer gas to escape your drains, check out Hydrogen sulphide online and ask yourself " do I want to be responsiblle for having this gas present in my home"

JoeBean · Oct 8, 2011

No offense to you, but locally we have 2 licensed plumbers working within about 300km (obviously I'm not in St. John's). I had both of them in before purchasing the house as I was concerned about the plumbing, and both said the exact same thing - "What's wrong with that? You're just not licensed, so you think this is wrong, but everything's fine. This is how we do it here". So no, I don't think I will be hiring a plumber.

And offense is meant here - if you honestly believe plumbing is such a complicated trade that only the "licensed professionals" can do it you are f-ing retarded. The only issue is obfuscation through hiding code.

johnjh2o · Oct 8, 2011

Just because the two plumbers in your area are incompetent don't apply there standard to the rest of us. What Liquid is saying to you is we can't give you a crash course in plumbing on this forum. What your asking for is something that has taken years to learn. Would you expect a doctor to tell you how to remove a kidney in a few sentences?
There are many professional on here that can answer specific questions.

John

LiQuId · Oct 8, 2011

well then joe bean, i will wish you a good day and good luck with you poop Shoot of plumbing. I have given you tons of usefull information and you have responded by insulting me ?? plumbing involves more technical aspects than you can even imagine ( clearly you have no idea )

The plumbers in your area are clearly not compitent, and havent read a code book. did you ask to see their ticket? I wager theyre not even plumbers if they okayed the installation.

Code is not hidden, i even told you where to get a code book. what more do you expect?

Good luck in your future ventures, I highly doubt if going on a forum and Insulting respected memebrs of said forum is a good way to seek the answers you are looking for.

If its "okay" then get it inspected and Rest easy, Im sure that the AAV's and such will be fine

As far as "appreciating any advice" you cleary dont.
And I hope you succeed ( not going to insult you back... thats not what I do )

Caduceus · Oct 9, 2011

JoeBean, if these are your true feelings
" if you honestly believe plumbing is such a complicated trade that only the "licensed professionals" can do it you are f-ing retarded. The only issue is obfuscation through hiding code."
...then why are you asking questions on a plumbing forum? You are apparently more intelligent than any of us and could simply buy a code book, interpret its meaning and put it into application. You may have offended more tradesmen than you intended. Good luck.

havasu · Oct 9, 2011

I took offense and I'm not even a plumber. Oh well, you help some, others you don't.

LeakFinder · Oct 9, 2011

If this isn't done right, extensive water damage can and will occur which may lead to mold growth. If you aren't very good at plumbing I would not suggest trying to re-pipe a house. It's an extensive job!