Pulsating pipes

[Jeff Handy]

If it is filling and sputtering randomly, the flush valve flapper is probably leaking, or once in a great while the seal that the flush valve sits on has gone bad.

 

[dorlando]

You are right. Last night I turned off water and this morning the tank was empty. I will replace the flush valve and flapper. I have a toto toilet. Any recommendations on part? Merry Christmas

 

[Jeff Handy]

There are special flappers for your Toto.
There should be numbers written or molded into the back of the inside of the tank, that will tell you what model you have.

Then search Google for that model number to find the correct flapper.

The flush valve probably does not need changing, just try the flapper first.

And don’t confuse the flush valve with the fill valve.

 

[RS]

We had a similar problem at our cabin and I installed standpipes in both hot and cold lines, and it stopped. My standpipes are just vertical pieces of pipe 18 inches long with caps on top, teed into the main lines. But I suspect as others do that your problem is caused by a leaking toilet valve. Simple to troubleshoot, turn off the valve to the toilet!

 

[dorlando]

Is it possible that The pulsating in the lines, hot and cold possibly, is being caused by the leaking toilet? Just asking because I didn’t think they would be related

 

[Jeff Handy]

If you read all previous posts, people have replied that there might be a noisy valve, it could be the shutoff valve at the toilet, or elsewhere up the line that supplies the cold water.

Re-read all the old replies.

Then the leaking toilet makes the water run, which then makes noise.

 

[Diehard]

Has it been established that you do, in fact, have a leaky toilet that is causing your symptoms?
If not, why not try isolating the toilet, by shutting off the water supply valve to it, on those occasions when the symptoms typically happen?

 

[dorlando]

It is not confirmed for sure that the toilet issue is causing the pulsating pipes. I will replace flapper first since I know I have a leak. I do like your suggestion and can turn water off to toilet to see if the issue goes away. Unfortunately it is very random, can happen every 4 or 8 days

 

[dorlando]

But considering that the flapper leaks all the time but the pipes pulsate randomly makes me wonder if it is due to something else as mentioned in other posts. Maybe the toilet valve, shower valve cartridge or something with the water heater

 

[Nukedaddy]

Hmmm.... that is a bit different from what I would have expected. Since you described replacing a “seal cap “, I inferred a Fluidmaster style float valve. The seal is usually black, but may be off white and is somewhat larger than a quarter. It has a short nipple center on one side to slip over a wire in the “cap”. The valves of this type cannot leak water out the trap refill tube unless even more water is going into the tank.
You may take Mr. Handy’s advise and change the flapper as a next step, but if that doesn’t fix the burbling trap refill tube there are a couple of other things to try. With the toilet tank full to normal mark, add several drops of food coloring so that the color collects down near the flapper. Wait 10 minutes then look for color in the bowl. If the flapper is not leaking but color is in the bowl you may find: The flush valve body below the flapper is cracked. OR The overflow tube is cracked, likely near the bottom. OR. The trap refill tube was not correctly installed with an air gap above the overflow. This can cause the trap refill tube to siphon the toilet tank water up and over the overflow tube down below the tank water level suppounding the overflow tube.

You may consider a “scorched earth” attack. Replace the float valve, flush valve and supply stop. If that doesn’t fix it .... well, the the limiting symptom seeming to be the float valve trap refill tube kind of breaks a logic tie for me. Be sure to post results if a scorched earth solution cures the symptom.

 

[dorlando]

Thanks. I assume I will need to change the flapper first to see if that fixes the leak before moving on. I will get one today

 

[dorlando]

Ok. I was able to catch it in action. When the pipes were pulsating somewhere in the house the toilet fill valve tube was sputtering water into the overflow pipe. O tried to replicate by lowering tank level but it hasn’t done it yet. However, the fill valve is making some noises, see attached video. I assume I should replace flapper still since I have a leak. Does this help identify if anything else should definitely be replaced? If I turn water off the fill valve stops making the noise. So it won’t let me upload a video but a definite noise from fill valve for several minutes. Water level is a little lower than normal

 

[cdestuck]

Have you thought of the possibility that these noises are coming from the pipe expanding and contracting lengthwise when a warm temperature comes through them. It seems to me if they are at normal house temperature and you went to use your shower and the hot water pipe heats up at Can expand in length and perhaps the noise you hear is it sliding in whatever clamps or attaching the pipe to framing members. Be interesting to see if you would turn on your shower and not use the hot water but just cold water to see if this noise would occur. Just my thoughts

 

[frodo]

Thanks. I did replace the seal cap and still have the problem. I will work on other things. What happens is water sputters from the fill tube line into the overflow pipe and makes a sputtering noise. It isn’t a constant stream of water, it sputters in but it does it randomly,


'''''''' meaning not when toilet is flushed ''''''

if the toilet valve is opening up between flushes
then your flapper is leaking. causing the water in the tank to lower
then the toilet fill valve opens.

fix the flapper leak, the intermediate chatter will disappear

your valve is not designed to open a little bit. it is designed to open all the way then close
this is the reason it is chattering. it is mad it is being used incorrectly and is telling you about it lol

 

[Alex Collins]

could this issue also describe what happens when a clothes washer intermittently draws water during spin cycle and then flutters the pipes in the wall. A bad fill valve in the washer Maybe?

 

[frodo]

could this issue also describe what happens when a clothes washer intermittently draws water during spin cycle and then flutters the pipes in the wall. A bad fill valve in the washer Maybe?

most washer fill valves are a snap open/snap closed valve
the noise you hear from that type valve is the pipe rattling inside the wall due to insufficient or inadequate strapping.

 

[dorlando]

Is it common, normal, for pipes to rattle and perhaps I need to also check for straps in the attic?

 

[Diehard]

No it's not normal or common.

It's not UNcommon if when something like quick closing valves as a washing machine valve or a dishwater or the like, operate.
Loosely supported pipe, in those cases, would or could rattle or bang, etc.

 

[frodo]

pex piping is the worst culprit , so was polybutalaine

that cheap crap needs to be strapped every 24'' in my opinion

tricks on strapping a pipe inside a wall with out cutting a hole in said wall

drill a hole in the wall at just above the base board.
drill a hole in the wall 6'' above where you think the pipe is
fill the cavity from the bottom with spray expanding foam till it is visible in the top hole
caulk over the holes.

 

[Alex Collins]

Since were on the topic, I would run cold water forever and no banging, I would run hot for a little while and no banging, But when I run hot for a long time then tremendous banging would occur. The problem ended up being one loose strap on main cold water line near the water heater. So it would only bang around as the water heater drew in steady cold water as a steady flow of hot water was being used. To find this took replacing the flush valve seal and the shower cartridge and almost the kitchen faucet cartridge...