Preventing leaks copper joints

[AJay]

Yesterday I started repiping the copper for the "bathroom from hell".

I have done a fair amount of soldering of copper pipe so am generally able to accomplish the task without getting any leaks. But also in the past I've only had to do a few connections, reducing the chance for screw-ups.

So as not to have to leave the water for the entire house off for days, I installed a couple of 3/4" valves in the basement and am not going to start working my way up to the bathroom.

Obviously if there is a leak you shut off the water and try to add more solder. But in some cases the pipe is run in such a way as to make re-soldering very difficult without burning down the house. For example, the main 3/4" line goes up into the bathroom, emerges thru the 2x4 top plate of the wall below and make a 90deg turn. Part of the elbow is inside the 2x4. So if it is leaking I certainly can't resolder that.

I do have an air compressor but don't know what kind of fittings to get to pressure test the pipes.

I was thinking I could get a bunch of sharkbite fittings to use temporarily while checking those fittings that are hard to get to and resolder and then replace those with copper when done.

I do like the idea of using the air compressor as there's no water to drain out if there is a leak.

Can anyone offer some tips other than "hire a real plummer"? (When we had our water heater replaced a while ago they had to turn off the water for the house 3 times due to a leak in their connections.)

 

[AJay]

I've picked up some brass connectors to be able to use air compressor.

How much air pressure is enough? I wouldn't think much.

 

[phishfood]

80-100 lbs, and use a spray bottle of soapy water to spray down all of the joints. That should be good.

 

[johnjh2o]

What we use when soldering in tight places is a product called Laco Cool Gel. This stuff is great you can spray it on news paper and put the torch to the paper with out igniting it. As far as testing it with air we just solder a fitting onto a stub out and screw a snifter valve into it. It is also helpful to have a pressure gauge in the piping at some point so you can see if there is a pressure drop over time.

Little Giant 577775 1/8" Pipe Thread Snifter Valve
LA-CO: Product Detail - Cool Gel® Heat Barrier Spray

John

 

[phishfood]

Never heard of the Cool Gel. Sounds like some good stuff.

 

[AJay]

Thanks for the quik responses guys... I appreciate it.

I did pickup a cheap Husky air pressure gage and connectors for it.

I was just checking a different thread on a RIGID forum ( Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit ) and realized that I don't have a way to release the air pressure slowly. Not sure I want something shooting thru the air and into me eye! In spite of trying to use a table saw to clean my finger nails, my time in the Navy taught be to me super safety conscious.

I guess I can leave the compressor hose connected and let pressure out of the entire system thru the compressor but not sure if that will work. So maybe a 1/2" snake-bite valve on one end instead of a cap so i can slowly open and bleed air out.

 

[johnjh2o]

If you use a snifter valve you can slowly release the pressure the same way you would from a tire.

John

 

[johnjh2o]

phishfood, It is a great product, we use it when quite often when working in tight spaces. One thing we found out is not to get any on the joints your trying to solder it will prevent the joint from heating up.
I had always feared having someone pointing at me saying, there goes the guy that burnt that house down. Thank God it never happened.

John

 

[Mr_David]

I use a 5/8 compression stop valve with a hose outlet ( laundry stop valve).
I have a pressure test gauge that has a female hose fitting. I separated the hose fitting and installed a 3/8 IPS brass tee and a 3/8 ball valve. I then screw the open end of the ball onto a compressed air line for testing.
Trick is that all the joints have to be tight if you are air testing.

The other thing is don't use excessive heat to make your solder joints.
you only need approx 350 to 400 F to melt solder. Once you burn the flux from using to much heat you try and can re-solder all day long, but it wont un-burn. You have to take it apart.

 

[AJay]

Recently I bought some new flux thinking that perhaps newer stuff would work better. (Whatever "better" means). The stuff looks like jellied chicken broth. It didn't seem to work as well when I was trying to replace a leaking elbow, though the problem was actually a bit of water still in the line. I still have some grey paste and am wondering if there is a difference in the flux. Like, what the flux, man??

 

[Mr_David]

I've used Everflux Paste for many many years. Google it. It is water soluble.

Not familar with anything else except Laco many many yrs ago.

Wipe your pipe & joints with a wet rag when you're done.
Any flux not heated durung soldering or wiped on after soldering will turn the copper green.

 

[AJay]

Air testing did not detect any leaks and I just charged the system with water. So far so good.

Eight-six soldered joints and not a single leak.

Not too bad for an amateur.

Now to start gluing PVC.

 

[havasu]

Good deal!

 

[CHRISM]

Everflux should NOT be used for Copper GAS Pipework - IF Copper is used for GAS in the U.S. ?? - As You cannot remove the residue from the inside of the Pipe and Fittings - Water would `Flush Out` the Pipework on Plumbing and Heating Pipework.

It was Claimed to become `Inert` after Heating - BUT I would NOT Believe that - I have encountered MANY Problems with Corrosion of the Copper Pipework due to this Flux being used on Gas Copper Pipework.

Just imagine that the Flux residues could be Corroding the Gas Pipework [Copper] and at Some Stage it will Leak GAS !

I think that I was Asked about Copper being used for Gas in the U.K. [Where I am] previously on here - So perhaps it is NOT Permitted in the U.S. ?? - In which case My Post here is `IRRELEVANT` !

I await the Answer Please Gentlemen.


Regards,

CHRISM

 

[johnjh2o]

Soldered gas pipe is not allowed in the U.S. The main reason is if there is a fire the joints would melt causing them to leak. In some areas flared joints are allowed.

John

 

[havasu]

On threaded gas pipe, I myself use Rectorseal # 5, which is basically a teflon paste with sealing abilities. It is rated for both gas and water. I love the stuff!

RECTORSEAL® NO. 5®
Premium Pipe Thread Sealant
Description | Characteristics | Applications | Packaging | Instructions | Precautions | Specifications |
Limited Warranty

DESCRIPTION:

RectorSeal® No. 5® is our most popular thread sealant. It has withstood the test of time in a variety of uses and is widely known as the "standard of the industry."

RectorSeal® No. 5® is a soft setting, slow drying thread sealant made from special inert fillers dispersed in an oleoresinous base to facilitate its application to threaded pipe connections.

RectorSeal® No. 5® is a unique, versatile and reliable sealant that is non-toxic in accordance with NSF Standard 61. In addition, it is Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) classified, listed under the Uniform Plumbing Code (IAPMO) File No. 1282, and it is approved and listed with the Canadian Standards Association (CSA).

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CHARACTERISTICS:

For use with potable water (hot or cold)
Lead free and contains no other metals
Soft setting, slow drying
Brushable from 20 degree F to 140 degree F
Will not dry out in the can
Multipurpose - wide range of service uses
Immediate pressurization on pipe up to 2" and 100 psi
For pressure up to 12,000 psi (liquids) and 2,600 psi (gases)
Smooth easy application
Permits easy break out with no damage to threads
Economical - requires only a small amount
Reduces friction to allow tighter joint makeup
Lubricates and protects threads

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APPLICATIONS:

RectorSeal® No. 5® is recommended for pipe made of galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper, aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, reinforced fiberglass, and PVC. DO NOT USE ON ABS - use RectorSeal® No. 100 Virgin™ or RectorSeal® T Plus 2®.

RectorSeal® No. 5® is recommended for pipe carrying:

Acids, Dilute Gasohol (unleaded Gasoline and 10% Alcohol) Natural Gas
Air, Compressed Heating oils Nitrogen, Gaseous
Ammonia- Gaseous, Liquid Helium, Gaseous Petroleum Solvents
Aliphatic Solvents Hydraulic Oils Soap, Liquid
Caustic, Dilute Hydrogen, Gaseous Steam
Cutting Oils (Low Aromatic) Inert Gases Vegetable Oils
Diesel Fuel Oil Kerosene Water (Hot or Cold)
Freons Liquified Petroleum Gases (Butane, Propane, Mixtures)
Gasoline (Leaded Unleaded) Mineral oils
Not recommended for oxygen.

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PACKAGING:

Code Size Qty. Per Case Lbs. per Case Cu. Ft Per Case
25790 1 3/4 oz. display (50 g) 24 tubes 4 .13
25780 1 3/4 oz. bulk (50 g) 48 tubes 6 .23
25631 1/4 pint brush top (118 ml) 24 cans 11 .18
25551 1/2 pint brush top (237 ml) 24 cans 21 .45
25431 Pint brush top (473 ml) 12 cans 20 .43
25300 Quart brush top (946 ml) 12 cans 37 .78
25271 Gallon friction top (3.8 L) 4 cans 46 .94
25191 5 Gallon (18.9 L) 1 pail 57 1.12
25112 55 Gallon (208 L) 1 drum 623 9.01
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INSTRUCTIONS:

Stir before using. Wipe threads clean.
For pipe diameters up to 1 1/4", apply to male threads only. For larger sizes, apply to both male and female threads.
Join and tighten pipe to ANSI Standards
Wipe excess sealant from joints. For natural gas, air and water lines up to 2" diameter and up to 100 psi, piping systems may be placed into immediate service. For other service and application conditions, cure times may vary. Contact Technical Service for recommended cure times.

 

[Admin]

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