Need help retrieving well water

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willfire67

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I have a well at my house that has not been used since 1992. The entry pipe is still available in the house, 1 1/4" (see picture, black pipe from floor). There is water at the six foot mark in the pipe. The house is supplied by domestic. I want to use the well water for my irrigation system. I tried to hook up my 1/2 hp booster pump (used for the irrigation system) to the well pipe to draw up the water. It worked but only at a trickle. What I'm asking is if all I need to do this procedure is an external shallow well pump and what hp?

well pipe.jpg
 
Dont know where my previous reply went! Thanks for replying! Will that pump pull the water up through the 1 1/4" pipe or should I slide a smaller, say 3/4" neoprene tube down that pipe to the bottom to pull the water? My 1/2 hp booster pump didn't seem to do the job on the 1 1/4" or is that not designed for that type of application? If not, what is the operational difference between the two pumps?

pump.jpg
 
In your second picture, where is the well pipe? If it's directly below the pump, you have it hooked up backwards.

That pump is an end suction and is not designed for pulling water. It's designed to boost pressure by means of a flooded suction. Those end suction pumps are next to impossible to prime.

The other thing is that most 1-1/4" wells which I am assuming you have are pounded into the ground with a well point (screen) on the bottom. Screens get plugged over time by minerals in the water. So it may or may not produce any water at all. Do like valveman suggested, try a jet pump.
 
Hi speedbump. no, the well pipe is about 2' to the left of the pump. That's kinda what I was thinking after the fact about that booster pump. I do believe it is producing water, previously I fed a 3/4" neoprene tube down it to check the distance to the bottom and/or water content and found the pipe full of water at only 6' below the floor.

Okay, so I see that I will need a well pump. I do plan to investigate further on the depth of the well. If its less than 25' I know I need a shallow well pump. If it is more, any ideas on type of pump for that distance? What is a good hp? and mostly, will it pull water out of the 1 1/4" and produce a head pressure of at least 60 psi? what will? or will I need to then run it through the booster pump for the irrigation system? Thanks!!
 
What I would do first is buy a Pitcher Pump and test pump the well. You can buy them all over, even on my site: Hand Pump This way you won't be spending $69.00 on a junkie Harbor Freight pump that lasts one season (maybe) or one that costs around $400.00+ with a lot of quality just to find out that the well won't produce. I mean there are ways to clean the screen if your willing to do the work. Pull it out and replace it or use Nu-Well tablets to eat up the minerals, but I wouldn't buy a new pump first.

Forget the booster pump for pulling water up. It just won't do it. You need a plunger pump or a jet pump which looks like this: Jet Pumps

Oh I forgot the other question you asked: About water level and well depth. The 25 feet everybody talks about a shallow well pump lifting if from the top of the water which in your case is 6'. The well can be hundreds of feet deep, that isn't important. If you get a good jet pump, it will make 60 psi max, but will produce about 20 gpm at 40 psi or so. If the well will keep up. Most 1-1/4 wells won't do much better than 12 -15 gpm. Lots of variables.
 
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Thanks Speedbump! That's good info that I defiantly can use! Will that pump pull the water up through the 1 1/4" pipe or should I slide a smaller, say 3/4" neoprene tube down that pipe (and how far?) to pull the water?
And you're saying that electric well pump should be good enough on its own to feed the irrigation system without piggybacking the booster on it?
I checked out your site, now im more confused LOL what is a good suggestion for a brand and hp, etc. of permanent pump if I get water from the pitcher pump?
 
Stay with the 1 1/4" drop pipe. It is easier for a pump to draw from 1 1/4" pipe. 3/4" pipe will restrict it.

No you don't need to tie the two pumps together. A good brand name jet pump will do it all by itself.

Or if you have 4" casing or larger, I would drop in a submersible. You can get a 1/2HP, 10 GPM sub fairly cheaply, it never needs priming, and will deliver more water for the HP than a jet.
 
Pump brands have been being bought out by several large corporations and things are changing fast. There are more and more pumps coming from other countries which all seem to have a set of problems of their own. The easiest way to buy a good pump is to stay away from any kind of big box store. You can buy one off my site, or go to a plumbing or well supply in your area that specializes in pumps tanks plumbing etc. Most places that do that kind of work will have quality pumps instead of the throwaways.

Just remember to test pump the well first. Don't buy a jet pump until your sure the well is any good.
 
Speedbump, Valveman, I am going to get the pitcher pump this morning. After installing how long/much to I have to pump out before I will know for sure that the well is producing? 10 gal, 20 gal, 10 min, 30 min of constant water?

Of the pumps on your site What size shallow pump do you recommend for me that will give the most psi and feed the irrigation system? 1/2 hp, 3/4?

Oh, one thing that you touched on was the screen. I believe im gonna have to go the nu-well tablets route since I don't have access to the screen. All I have is the 1 1/4" pipe in the house. I have no idea where the well is nor do I know where the outside cover is. how do I use the tablets, just drop them down the 1 1/4" pipe?

Sorry, a lot of questions in this one. I appreciate all the advise you're offering to me here!
 
Before we size a pump, lets do the test with the Pitcher Pump. Use a 5 gallon bucket once you get the pump primed up and time how long it takes to fill it to the 5 gallon mark. Hopefully it will fill in 20 seconds or less. Your don't have to pump long to see what it will produce, however you may have to pump a while to get it to clear up. If this well in in a basement, the well is probably the pipe your looking at. Drop a weight on some fish line down to see how deep it is. Look for 15 to 30 feet.

The first pump of the handle once you get the water up to the pump (you have to cup the spout with your hand and pour water into the pump to prime while pumping the handle) will tell you a lot about the wells ability to make water. When you push the handle down, you want it to have to be pulled back up. If it kicks back up by itself, that means it didn't get a full stroke of water and the well needs help. The further it kicks back up, the less water it's going to produce.

Nu Well tabs are dropped down one at a time so they don't bridge halfway down. Pouring water down the casing after putting the tabs in is very important. This dissolves the tablets and pushes the sulfamic acid out into the vein where a lot of the cemented minerals are that have to be dissolved. I would put about ten tablets in at a time then run water from a garden hose as fast as the well will take it for half hour then add ten more. Once you get the well where it drinks water pretty fast, put twenty tabs in and let the hose trickle for several hours. You may have to do this many times. If the well won't drink water at all, it may be too late. If it drinks very slowly, watch for it to improve. It will give as much as it will take or more.
 
Speedbump, okay the pitcher pump is done. It pulled water from the well I feel pretty good. It took just a little over 20 seconds to fill 5 gallons after it was primed. The flow was good, had to pull the handle back up and as I was pumping I could feel the resistance in the handle as it pulled water up and out. Surprisingly the water wasn't that bad, on the clear side.
 
Great news, I was doubtful since the well had been sitting, but your in good shape. So lets assume 10 gallons per minute since you said a little over 20 seconds. A 1/2 hp shallow well jet pump will do around 10 gpm but not at great pressure. I would recommend a 3/4hp or maybe even a 1hp. Not much difference, since the 3/4hp is a little bigger than the 1/2 and the 1hp is the bigger jump in gpm and pressure. The SEI Goulds knockoff is a good pump, has a copper wound motor (that you won't find many of anymore) and has all parts identical to Goulds. You can see that one here:
http://shop.pumpsandtanks.com/index...ducts_id=585&zenid=egrqmaskiipqcjtqq3b8vvvjh0
and here: http://shop.pumpsandtanks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=586
 
Thanks speedbump for all the help! It helped me out a lot! I have a lot to look at now for pumps. I will let you know how it all turns out! Again, thank you!
 
okay speedbump, here's some more questions, this time its about your pumps:)

in the 3/4 hp group, please explain the differences, advantages and disadvantages to these pumps you list:

sw-75
ljs-7
ljd07
sfh-75

in the 3/4 hp group, please explain the differences, advantages and disadvantages to these pumps you list:

ljs-10
sw-100
sfh100

Im wondering about these issues: max psi and gpm for each of them, inlets and outlet sizes and general overall differences between all of them. I may be wrong but I am a little concerned that the pump itself will feed the irrigation system on its own, everything Im reading and seeing incorporates a pressure bladder tank with a well pump.

Im seeing a lot of these blue pump/pressure bladder tank combos. Was wondering about these seeing Im needing 60 psi for the irrigation system, nothing below 50 psi will effectively run the system.

AAAnd lastly, Im prolly gonna need a little assistance hooking this baby up to the pipe correctly. :)
 
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A deep well jet pump has two pipes that go down the well. If you have a 1 1/4" drive point well, you don't have any place to put the extra line, so stay with a shallow well jet pump.

To get any kind of flow at 60 PSI you are going to need at least a 1HP. If the water in the well is 15' or deeper, you probably need a 1.5HP.
 
All the pumps on my site have 1-1/4" suction and 1" discharge. The SW is less money than the SFH because it's not as easy to prime as the SFH. Otherwise, they are the same basically. The LJS is the shallow well version of the Goulds knockoff. The LJD won't work for your well. The big difference between the SW, SFH and the LJ is the motor. The SW, SFH uses an Emerson motor and the LJ uses a motor made by SEI that is Copper Wound unlike the Emerson with aluminum windings. Parts are easy to come by for both pumps but shouldn't be needed as they are both quality pumps.

Getting a system working at 60 psi is next to impossible as that is most 1 hp pumps max pressure. Sprinklers work just fine at 40 psi and that is what you should be setting your system at. You will get much better flow at 40 and practically none at 60. We can change the venturies in the jets to make more pressure but there is a flow tradeoff doing that. So to make it simple, if the 3/4 hp produced enough water but not pressure, you could go with the 1hp or 1.5hp, use a smaller venturi to get more pressure and the larger impeller would give you more water.

The tanks can be used, but you can also use a pump start relay off of your sprinkler timer to control the pump.
 
speedbump said:
The tanks can be used, but you can also use a pump start relay off of your sprinkler timer to control the pump.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean here. Yes, the irrigation system does have a relay that turns on and off the booster pump which I will hook up to the well pump instead to turn it on and off when watering. BTW, I think I failed to mention that the irrigation system waters 2 acres of lawn, so the longest run is about 150' away from the house. So do I just go with a 3/4 hp to draw the water from the well and connect a pressure tank to it to increase psi and feed the irrigation system, or am I confusing myself?
 
Tanks do not make or increase pressure, they simply store it. You won't need a tank in your situation. You won't need a booster pump either.

Do you know how much water your zones use? I didn't realize you already had a sprinkler system. What used to provide water for the system? City water or that well? You have to know how much water you need before just putting a pump on a well and assuming it will keep up with the zones.
 
Oh good question! I will have to ask the installer that one. All I know is that it was hooked up to city water, which is 35 psi at the inlet and then branched off to a 1/2 hp booster pump which ramped it up to 60 psi and out to the irrigation system. It works great that way but not so hot when the booster pump is off. The booster pump is used for the irrigation system only, not the house.
 
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